Myth, Magic, Medicine podcast 6/12/22
Host: Denise Billen-Mejia MD www.aahypnosis.com
Guest: Liz Treynor MD FaceBook and Podcast Mind Surfer MD
Links at foot of page.
Denise
Myth magic medicine and everything in between two doctors talking...,
Hi, welcome to Myth, Magic, Medicine. I'm Denise Billen-Mejia, and today's guest is my friend, Liz
Treynor, a pathologist in California who wants to normalize mental health issues in the practice of
medicine. Did I say that right?
Liz (00:31):
Normalize, yeah. Normalize discussions about mental health, because it's something that people tend to
hide. Right? And yet it's something that's really common.
Denise (00:42):
Right. But are you, I realize that it will be wonderful for the entire world, if we could normalize this, is your
niche, as we say, for healthcare professionals? Because it is such a taboo subject for doctors who are going
through problems.
Liz (00:57):
Yes.
Denise (01:00):
The larger group?
Liz (01:00):
Well, my original focus is, you know, women physicians, ‘cuz that's who I am right? That's who I can
identify with the most. And, and yet this is something that's so important to me that it expands to
anyone. And so I am, starting with the goal of addressing women physicians and the people who love
them.
Denise (01:26):
Okay.
Liz (01:27):
So that opens up the door for our friends and our loved ones and it's, addressing them too. And yet, the
podcast that I've done so far are, you know, with other women physicians like yourself, talking about the
specifics of the challenges with struggling with what I call mental spice. During our training and during
our professional practice and trying to take that, - to shine a light on that. Right? Because it is, again, it's
so common. Why must it be something that we stigmatize and is a source of shame?
Denise (02:12):
Can we just backtrack a little bit because I'm hoping that not just doctors will be listening to this,
although obviously, I'm marketing to doctors too, but can you give a little background of just how
inhibited doctors are from talking about their own emotional health when we practice medicine, both at
the hospital level and the licensing level.
Liz (02:36):
Right, right. So, the questions on our, on some state licenses are something on the order of, you know,
"Have you ever had a mental illness that could affect your practice?" Whereas in California, I actually
looked it up before I went public to make sure, I wouldn't lose my medical license. I took a picture of it
and I don't know if I can find it in time to read it exactly. But ok , the California license question is, "Have
you been diagnosed with an emotional or mental or behavioral disorder, which impairs your ability to
practice medicine safely?" And mine does not. I am still able to work. I am still able to think, I am highly
functional, even when I'm depressed. Fortunately I am a functional depressive.
Liz (03:46):
I'm still able to get to work and people don't even know that I'm depressed. So because it doesn't
impede my ability to work. I am comfortable finally coming out of the closet, if you will. Because, again, I
think, and I don't know if you're familiar with the Dr. Lorna Breen law* that just passed. but that is also
huge. Dr. Breen was a brilliant ER physician who, contracted COVID and, almost certainly had the
microthrombi that are known to be a consequence of a COVID infection in some people, that was
impeding her brain function to the point where she couldn't think, she couldn't function, she was so
depressed that she died by suicide. And this was such a profound loss because not only was she so
respected in her community and the hospital, I think she was the chair of the ER department. She could
not seek help because she knew that, at that time, it would mean the loss of her livelihood, the loss of
her license.
Denise (05:10):
She worked in Elmhurst, in New York, and it is very much a taboo subject there.
Liz (05:18):
Actually, I say that the Dr. Breen law*, at a federal level, provides funding to prevent physician suicide,
to provide resources for physicians, right. To provide mental health.
Denise (05:34):
I am a little bit wary because, I think that's a great idea, obviously we need this, but has it changed the
wording on the license application and renewal for New York state?
Liz (05:44):
And that is the next, target. I finally got to the point where I'm like, I am willing to lose my job and go to
bat for this if that's what it takes. Okay. I do admit I looked up the California licensing thing just before I
went public, just to really make sure, but, I would be more than happy to argue at the national level that
this is something that should be changed in every single state licensing. It should be absolutely changing
every single state licensing question. And thank God, California is reasonable here. Also I credentialed at
my hospital recently, and that was my other concern. Right? Well, am I going to lose my credentialing at
the hospital? And, the credentialing question at my hospital is also based on, the California question,
which again, I am able to answer with a full-hearted. I am not at all impaired, this will not affect patient
care. I am trying to see if I can find that, share with our audience, but I can't find it right now quickly.
Um, so yeah, but that's something that I think, uh, legally should be fixed on all
Denise (07:05):
Across the board
Liz (07:06):
Medical licensing across the board, across the 50 states. And
Denise (07:11):
Guam and Puerto Rico and all the other ones that are ...
Liz (07:14):
American.
Denise (07:15):
Right - it's a worldwide problem, a worldwide problem. We've had cases of, British doctors dying by
suicide because of being reported or, being made to jump through the similar hoops that you have here,
where you have to go to the, what do they call it? They have a special committee and you have to see
certain psychologists and you have to see their people and, and it can go on for years and always the fear
that you'll lose your livelihood. Yes. You found the point?
Liz (07:48):
So I found the health status question on my own reaccreditation paperwork. And I just want to say, I do
not represent my hospital, anything I say here has nothing to do with where I work. Um, and this is just a
generic question that I'm sure is used at other hospitals as well. But again, I'm grateful that this question
is something that I can answer wholeheartedly with a yes, that the question is, "Are you able to perform
all of the procedures for which you have requested privileges with, or without reasonable
accommodation, according to the accepted standard of professional performance and without posing a
threat to patients?" And that is a yes, I absolutely am. So instead of it being, have you ever been
diagnosed, which right. It would have, I would have to lie. I don't want to lie, but no.
Denise (08:56):
But if your illness were not well controlled, it might well affect your ability to work, but that's still, you can
break your leg and not be able to work. You can do a lot of things and not be able to work for a short
period of time.
Liz (09:13):
Right. Right. And I am absolutely well, you know, I am well medicated, I do everything I can, right.
Because, you know, I exercise every day. I sleep nine hours every day. Matcha is my new favorite drug,
by the way I take it before I meditate, [and I] highly recommend meditation for anybody who hasn't
tried it, by the way. It is life changing. And it was so hard for me to get started, but it's so good for your
brain. Like, since we're all physicians or many of us are, you know, it increases all the happy chemicals,
you know, your DHDA, your dopamine, your serotonin. I like to say not exercising even for one day is like
taking a depressant
Liz (10:08):
And so that motivates me every single day because I am not going to deliberately take a depressant
unless I'm sick. I was sick on Tuesday, which is why I didn't release my podcast on Tuesday. I had
stomach flu, but, it's really, kind of the same thing with meditation in terms of, preventing depression, it
also increases your telomeres.
Denise (10:37):
Oh, I like that, being my age - I like that!
Liz (10:40):
Exactly
Liz (10:41):
Right, if you don't got good telomeres, you're unraveling the DNA. And then right, we can't repair
ourselves and our skin falls off - and that doesn't sound good, at least it's sags, your skin sags. So, the
episode I'm working on now with Dr. Schram, "Hypnotherapy - better than Botox!".
Denise (11:10):
It is
Liz (11:12):
It is, yeah. I think the best makeup, -good sleep, good exercise, right? And meditation every day. and of
course. Good nutrition.
Denise (11:22):
Yes. Well, food is
Liz (11:23):
Medicine- I'm working on eating more spinach. I'm putting it in my smoothies. It's excellent. Then I don't
have to, you know, it takes too long to eat greens. So I'm finding, putting 'em in the smoothies is a great
way to get 'em.
Denise (11:34):
OK. What do you think about the way, sort of separating actual chemical imbalance kind of mental health
issues with emotional trauma issues? What do you think about the way physicians are trained and the lack
of control over your schedule? Because there aren't too many surgical residents that can get nine hours a
night on a regular basis. Lucky, if they get that once a week, probably.
Liz (12:02):
Any kind of schedule. And I'm telling you, Denise, that is why I am not a surgeon. And I am so glad I am a
pathologist. That was absolutely paramount in my choosing a specialty. And I worked at an in infertility
practice for a year before I went to medical school. I worked as an MA before you had to get licensed So
I learned from the office manager how to draw blood, but, it was such, such a wonderful place to work
because again, you have a nice schedule. And, you know, you're helping patients who are in a tough
spot and doing something that, you know, that, that, you know, bringing life to patients that just it's like
this gift that can't, you know, words fail. It's the most beautiful thing you can, you can help somebody
achieve that, or achieve is maybe not the right word, but you know what?
Denise (12:56):
Then you looked at an obstetrician's calendar and said, no, not for me.
Liz (12:59):
And then, and then my very first rotation, third year out of the gate was OB. And I'm telling you, I don't
know if I'm allowed to say the S H I T word, but I like to say S H I T rolls downhill. And those were the
most miserable people I'd ever met. They, they weren't getting any sleep. And I'm like, this is not an
option for me. I need sleep., I can't do infertility because I can't go through this gauntlet. That's just not
happening.so, second rotation pathology, and I loved, loved, loved, my second year pathology class. In
fact, I won the pathology award. I got sent to the AFIP, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology**, when
it still existed. Sadly, it was closed, a decade or so ago due to funding, but, that used to be the center for
excellence in pathology. And, um, that was a really, really fun experience to meet other, students who
were excited about pathology and to meet the top minds in the field, they had the most brilliant
pathologist speak to us. That's great. So I, I kind of knew I wanted to do pathology in a second.
Denise (14:11):
And that was great for you, but for, you know, we can't all be pathologists and we can't all be
dermatologists and other people I can think of that can sleep most nights, but what can we do? Do you
think what is possible, within training, that would allow for a more humane life?
Liz (14:29):
Because
Denise (14:29):
Most people say, well, if we do that, then they're going to extend training. And, America has a very short,
the US I should say, has a much shorter training period than most countries, right?
Liz (14:40):
Oh, I didn't know that, for your residency?
Denise (14:43):
Well, I trained here, but, in the UK 8 to 12 years for most specialties to get to the point where you're, what
we would call an attending, they would call a consultant. You're longer in the chain, in many countries
Liz (14:59):
Well. I, imagine in the other countries, their students don't come out with a quarter million dollars
worth of debt and don't get paid, basically a pittance, I would hope.
Denise (15:10):
Uh, they do get paid a pittance for all their residency. Okay. But they don't come out with quite that much
debt it's, it's larger than they used to be in the UK. But, it's nowhere like the US, which is another, yeah,
that's a whole 'nother podcast.
Liz (15:24):
I was, a few, no, many years ago, just so relieved to see that there was the 80 hour limit, although I
know there's issues with that as well. Um, and the truth is I don't see how anybody, you know, there's
some people whose brains, like Elon Musk only need two hours of sleep and God bless them. They can
be surgeons, but not my brain.
Denise (15:50):
Yeah. maybe
Liz (15:50):
Not my brain,
Denise (15:51):
If you're truly that exhausted, how much can you possibly be learning?
Liz (15:56):
Exactly.
Denise (15:57):
Yes.
Liz (15:57):
Yes. I mean, it's a risk to patient care. It's just… my
Liz (16:02):
husband said during his internship, he fell asleep while holding a retractor in the surgery suite. Right?
He's got, he's got an open patient and he fell asleep.
Denise (16:12):
Right. That's why that, what motivated people to change, the hours. It happened in New York first
because we had the death of the child of somebody important and heads rolled. And I was, I was a resident
when that was all happening and, and I had just...
Liz (16:34):
Benefited from that change
Denise (16:35):
NO!, Just as I finished my fellowship, the rules came in
Liz (16:42):
Later generations. Oh, well later generations.
Denise (16:43):
Yes,
Liz (16:44):
And, and all the patients that followed.
Denise (16:45):
They were still pretty long hours. I still think the more important point is that you be allowed to go off
duty when you finish call. We had to continue through the following day. So our days were usually 36
hours, which is insane really.
Liz (17:03):
I mean,
Denise (17:03):
It's insane. Yes. You're younger. Yes. You can survive it. But...
Liz (17:09):
at what cost ?
Denise (17:10):
At what cost to
Liz (17:10):
Our patients cost, to our brains yeah. To our health. Right. We all know the benefits of sleep and the
importance of sleep. And it's just fundamental to our wellbeing and to our patient's wellbeing. Yeah. I
think it's, at least for me, it was not an option. And I like to say pathology is the best kept secret in
medicine because it's so much fun and we don't have to deal with a lot of the baloney that a lot of our
peers do. I'm very grateful to have found something I love to do that allows me to sleep and work three
days a week.
Denise (17:50):
But unfortunately, not everybody can do and we do need the other specialties, so
Liz (17:56):
Yes, we do. And I don't know what the answer is.
Denise (17:59):
Now. You said, you said you were willing to go to bat and testify before Congress or whatever needed to
get this, these rules changed. Are you working with anybody in particular or are you just following along
and seeing what you can do?
Liz (18:12):
I have a contact. I don't know if you know, Nisha* who does, - from side gigs. she is phenomenal. Um,
and in fact, she was instrumental in, physicians getting PPP support. I think she got 7 billion to support
physicians. Uh, she got the good Samaritan law for physicians not being sued for trying to help patients
with COVID. She has obviously worked at the national level, getting laws changed. And so I would team
up with her. So Nisha , if you're listening, I may be contacting you.
Denise (18:56):
The other thing, the Match. You think that that adds anything to people's stress levels in medical school?
Because you're coming out, you can't work yet for several years, you can't work under your own license.
And yet you've got this massive bill and, and all the other things that you've put on hold in your life to get
through medical school, to get to medical school, to get through medical school. Now a half a million
dollars probably in debt or similar, and this huge, " Am I going to get a) the residency I want?"or b) "any
residency anywhere?" Do you think there's some changes that we could make to that system?
Liz (19:37):
Oh, that's a, that's a really interesting question. Cause of course that's incredibly stressful, right? We
have no control. I mean, limited control over where we land. I remember as a medical student, um, my
mission was to match at Stanford and well, I was at the top of my class. I honored every single class
except for OB GYN.
Denise (19:59):
cause you knew, you knew.
Liz (20:00):
Because I knew I needed to be perfect to match where I wanted to match, but, but having limited
control has got to be incredibly stressful. I don't have an easy answer for that either. Um, because right
there are, there are limited spots and I think the Match is probably the best way. Right? For, for all these
puzzle pieces to land into place at one time. Right? Because of the delays that would ensue, if you know,
anyway, long story short, I don't know anything better. I mean, curious, what do you think? What, what
could we do?
Denise (20:38):
I don't know. I know in other countries it's, everybody puts, goes in the hopper and they're, in many
countries, just told where they're going. Here, you have to have sufficient funds to apply to. I think you
get a certain number -so long since I had to deal with it, the Match issue wasn't around as much when I
was in training. But you get a certain number [of applications] for like a hundred bucks and then you have
to [ pay to ]apply for each place after that. Plus you may have to fly, thankfully, we more Zoom calls now,
but you have to fly for an interview. You have to put yourself up there. People are all over and if you
haven't got money behind you, then you're out of luck. So I, I feel it is such a question. I know in Romania,
cuz I have family and friends who trained in Romania an went through their system. You take your
National Qualifying Exams. After you graduate from school, you take your licensing exams. Internship is
part of medical school there and you are assigned, you're told, you're told what specialty and where you're
going.
Liz (21:43):
You are not even given a choice for specialty?!
Denise (21:49):
No, you're told, I mean, I guess you probably have, "I'd like to do this," but no,told. I know one woman
who went through, she's extremely clever and she wound up with a hematology residency that she was
sort of surprised and that I think it was expected to be a six year residency. You, you do have the
opportunity to apply again, to go through the Match thing again, their version of the Match.
Liz (22:14):
Wow, and that terrifies me. Yeah. The, the thought that I would've been forced to be a surgeon terrifies
me like, uh, that that's like a non-starter I could not do that, and I did Honors surgery, right? That's like,
oh, I fooled them all.
Denise (22:33):
So that might have been dangerous for you. You might have been slotted there.
Liz (22:36):
Yeah. But. I, I just, I need to sleep.
Denise (22:39):
Yeah. I did a lot of surgical rotations when I was in my fourth year. And I remember I was very friendly
with one of the pediatric surgeons. We were all, you know how you do afternoon rounds, and there's this
gaggle of doctors walking along and he said "So you want to be a surgeon?", I said, " I wouldn't touch it
with the 10 foot barge pole". It came out without a filter and he said, "Why are you doing all these
rotations?" " Because I want to know how surgeons think, I want to understand" I knew I wanted to be in
peds.
Liz (23:08):
And this wonderful piece of advice, which I give to any and every, medical student is you go into every
single rotation, a hundred percent. That's what you want to do. cause you want to learn everything you
can and people want to teach you more when you're like, yes, I definitely want to be a pediatrician.
You'll learn more. And you'll, you'll get a better sense of what, what that specialty is. Like if you have
that attitude. Right. So you don't go into peds rotation, say I'm going to be an orthopedic surgeon. you
won't get the most out of it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that's really cool.
Denise (23:43):
What else do you think would improve our attitude towards mental health? Uh, is there some way to
destigmatize it for people?
Liz (23:56):
And again, I just think making it a normal part of the conversation because it is so common. I mean, we
both know 400 physicians die by suicide a year, at least.
Denise (24:10):
And that's in this country,
Liz (24:10):
In This country, That's just this country, right? Yeah. We, we both know that. I actually don't know what
these statistics are, but I'm sure it's upwards of 50% of physicians*** at some point in their training
have had suicidal ideation. I, um, recently saw a case which I included in my Facebook group. She was a,
superb human being in every regard. She happened to be a Stanford student, not a medical student, but
her story is, important because, outwardly, everything was perfect, but one thing, and the family doesn't
quite know what it is, but they think they know what it was. But one thing triggered her to die by
suicide. And there was no time to intervene because it was such an impulsive decision And if this is
something that is discussed more freely, if people are even at an earlier age, I mean, in a sense
immunized to this impulse, which is so common in humanity, everybody suffers, it is part of life.
Liz (25:47):
Everybody suffers pain is just part of living. And I do, I do love the quote, you know, something like pain
is mandatory, suffering is optional. But that's, sort of another tangent At the core, everybody suffers
before we learn how to turn suffering into pain. And we will almost, many, many, many of us will have
these moments. And if it's something that we can immunize kids to, you know, in health class early on, I
don't know, I don't know what the answer is, but I feel like that's something that continues to be an
important epidemic in our country. And by important, I mean, something that is preventable and
something that needs to be worked on. And again, I'm grateful for the Dr. Breen Law. I think that's a
good start, a good step in the right direction, to provide funding, to prevent this in physicians. And, I
think, you know, and I also, glad to see that every time I go into the doctor's office, there's that
depression questionnaire
Liz (27:17):
So that there's some light being shined into these dark corners.
Denise (27:26):
Mm. You do have to realize also that unfortunately you do those depression scores in your office, but
where do you send them if they score high and they need to see somebody, we have a real shortage of
people who can see plus insurance
Liz (27:45):
And insurance. That is yet another issue. Yeah. We didn't, we didn't even have a psychiatrist on our
medical staff for years.
Denise (27:55):
Ah, that could be a problem.
Liz (28:00):
Yeah. So, and again, I I'm sure this is, you know, something that is not uncommon in other hospitals. This
is, um, yeah. I mean, access to care, right, insurance not paying, basically, for something that is so
necessary -it's healthcare. Yes. This brain is part of , they're all connected. Right. And yet we separate
that out.
Denise (28:36):
I think there is also, there's, a certain amount of, almost what I call it machismo, but there’s more women
around [in medicine these days] and they seem to have the same issue. When you get sick, you have to
work. While you've got 102 fever or come in when you've got double pneumonia. It's, it's just part of the
ethos of medicine that you are supposed to put yourself last. Even when, putting yourself in front of
people, is likely to impact them poorly as well, giving your patients, your disease is not particularly helpful
to them.
Liz (29:14):
I think COVID has been, you know, I think it's been one of the silver
Denise (29:16):
Eye-opening Yeah,
Liz (29:18):
Yeah, yeah. One of the silver linings, right. Is like, if you're sick, don't come in. Just,
Denise (29:23):
But then again, I know there were several states that were telling their nurses if you're, you know, if you've
had five days and you're still feeling ill, but you're testing negative come
Liz (29:34):
In.
Denise (29:35):
yeah, yeah,
Liz (29:37):
Yeah. Lordy, well, God, I mean, that was the definitely because they were so short, they were so short.
Right. That was the it's like there was no, no other, no better option and yeah. So, yeah. this is, this is a
mission of mine. It's something that's really important to me. It's something that it's taken me, you
know, four decades to be public about. it was absolutely terrifying the first time.
Denise (30:06):
May I ask you?
Liz (30:07):
Yeah. Being public. Yeah.
Denise (30:09):
When, when, no. Yes. But before, when, how, how long did you know your diagnosis before you were
open about it?
Denise (30:17):
You told family and friends I assume but...
Liz (30:19):
Yeah. Almost 40 years. Yeah. I first, um, encountered depression when I was 12 and, recognized my
bipolar tendencies when I was 16.You know, for, for what it's worth, I'm bipolar light. So there's two
flavors of bipolar. There's, you know, the more serious one that can have delusions that many probably
most people will be more familiar with, but there's also kind of, a light version if you will. That's the
flavor of my spice and so that's why I'm able to still be functional when I'm depressed.
Denise (31:05):
Plus, you're medications ...
Liz (31:05):
...don't have the most severe. Yeah. Oh yeah. Plus I'm on medications, right. I do everything. I have a
therapist, I have a coach. I have, you know, like I said, I have a routine, that is, absolutely, fundamental
to my functioning, that I follow religiously.
Denise (31:22):
Okay. So did you, did you not tell people because you knew that it was a problem, how did you fill out that
first medical licensing question? You just honestly believed that it did not infect your
Liz (31:36):
Yeah., yeah, but
Denise (31:42):
Cos there were, there are, states where you wouldn't have been able to answer that question honestly.
Liz (31:47):
Right.
Denise (31:48):
Because it's not
Liz (31:49):
Thank God, I was in a state where I could. Yeah.
Liz (31:52):
And, and it, you know, and it's funny because I couldn't remember the details of the question and I had
to look it up and make sure it was okay before, I went public, so I, um, yeah, cuz even just, two months
ago, I was like, there's no way I, can't do this podcast. I'm just going to scratch all the work I've been
doing. There's just no way I can do this. You know, something shifted in me, you know, again, I go from
my ways go in the valley and then I have the energy and the passion and the clarity. And I just I'm like,
this is, this is my mission, this, . And you know what, if anybody's read Victor Frankel, "Man's Search for
Meaning" That is such an important book. As many of you know, he was in the concentration camps,
he's a psychiatrist who, through that ordeal realized that the ability to create meaning from suffering,
transmutes, it transmutes the suffering. And for me, this is my chance to make meaning from my
suffering. Right. And for me, this is the most liberating, beautiful gift I can give myself and give the
world.
Denise (33:16):
And it's also part of being a doctor because you're working to change that and allow other people to heal
faster, to not have to go through all of that.
Liz (33:26):
Right. And I think the isolation of depression profoundly amplifies it. Right. because we feel like we're
the only one we feel like there's nobody that wants to be with us. We isolate further.
Denise (33:42):
That you believe
Denise (33:44):
Other people are better off without you around.
Liz (33:48):
Yeah. Yeah. When I'm, when I'm depressed, my thought is the best thing I can do for global warming
Denise (33:55):
Is just stay in bed?
Liz (33:55):
No, is to not be here.
Liz (33:59):
Yeah. Because I'm using electricity and what is my carbon footprint? You know, if I'm not here less
carbon footprint.
Denise (34:07):
Right. But for those who may tuning in late with your medications and your therapist in place, you know,
that that is going to pass, you know, that those cycle are
Liz (34:17):
Again. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. And having, um, you know, um, an anchor which is for me,
my daughter, that I would never, ever, ever do that to her. And she also suffers from our mental spice
and maybe suffer is too strong, a word, but she also is flavored and, so she, and I have a deal that is just
not an option. it's just not an option.
Denise (34:49):
And you also, everybody needs, everybody, whether they've got a diagnosis or not needs somebody, they
can call any time, day or night when they need to . Two or three, right?. Because sometimes you have to
take your phone off for yourself, but you need to reach out and have a network of people who will answer
the phone to you no matter what.
Liz (35:09):
Right. And there is a physician hotline that's staffed by psychiatrists, that I, I just, I just want to toss out
there. I don't know if you know that
Denise (35:21):
Physician Hotline.
Liz (35:27):
Because that is a really important resource that I want any, and every physician to take advantage of,
whenever your brain is not working and your brain is lying to you because it will lie to you, yes, it's such
a good liar and you just got to be smarter than that. Lying SOB. that's not you, that's just not, you, you're
not that lying person or that lying voice. you know, that's just not who you are and to step away from
that,
Denise (35:59):
We're almost out of time. So what is the next step for you in this journey? You've got your podcast. Say
the name please.
Liz (36:07):
Oh, "Mind Surfer MD", thank you for asking, available
it started on buzzsprout. It should be available on Apple podcast and the others. We have a Facebook
group, Mind Surfer MD. I would love to see you in our community. I provide actionable tips and connect
people with alternative resources.
Denise (36:30):
Is your Facebook group for physicians only, or is this anybody with an interest in the subject.
Liz (36:34):
It's honestly for anybody who has interest in the subject, it's for women physicians and the people who
love them.
Denise (36:43):
Okay.
Liz (36:44):
So that's pretty much anybody, you know?
Denise (36:50):
And, once the dust has settled and you've got in a rhythm with the podcast, what will be the next thing do
you think?
Liz (36:57):
Uh, yeah. Connecting . Yes. Connecting yeah, really connecting with Nisha, right. On a smaller scale, to
expand the reach, to help as many people as I can. Right. And like I said, my mission is to save one life,
my own and others along the way. I hope.
Denise (37:28):
Thank you so much for joining me. And, again, in the show notes, there'll be ways of contacting Liz and
finding out about all the rest of her work. Thank you.
Liz (37:39):
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Love to all the surfers out there.
Denise (37:43):
Yes. She does surf in real life too. With actual waves.
Liz (37:48):
Yes. And I just, I just ordered a rash guard with my Mind Surfer MD logo and it looks so good.
Denise (37:56):
Send me a picture. Thank you. I will. Bye bye everybody.
Thank you for joining us in Myth Magic Medcine.
If you're not a medical professional, please remember while we're physicians, we're not your physicians. So
please consult with your own healthcare professional iIf you think something, you have heard, might
apply to you or a loved one until next time. Bye bye.
If you have found this episode useful, you can apply for free CME credit
The CME experience for this Podcast is powered by CMEfy - click here to reflect
and unlock credits & more: https://earnc.me/jSO8gL
Dr. Lorna Breen Law https://drlornabreen.org/about-the-legislation
Nisha https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nishamehtamd_hospitals-tell-doctorstheyll-be-fired-if-activity-6650844409174777856-PkcS/
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology https://www.afip.org
Depression and suicidal ideation in medical students
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/186586
Suicide is the second leading cause of death for physicians between the ages of 2434).
If ACTIVELY suicidal, call 911.
Physician: To speak confidentially with a volunteer psychiatrist call physician
support line @ 1-888-409-0141.
Non-Physician: 800-273-8255.
More resources
https://afsp.org