Denise 0:07
Myth, Magic, Medicine, and everything in between - two doctors talking. Hi, welcome to Myth, Magic, Medicine. I'm here today with Dr. Gabriel Bietz. is that right?
Gabriel 0:20
Yep, that's correct.
Denise 0:22
and I'll let him introduce himself .
Gabriel 0:25
Alright, well, first of all, thank you for having me. Yeah, I appreciate I thought it'd be a lot of fun to, to do to be part of a podcast, I don't do many of them. And so I appreciate it. But my name is Dr. Gabriel Bietz. I'm a vascular surgeon and I practice in downtown San Antonio. And so it's a wonderful place to practice, take care of, we take care of everybody. And, you know, we, we enjoy it, you know, we braved the pandemic, and so getting to do podcasts, and some of these fun things are just, it's nice, you know, it's a nice little break. So,
Denise 1:04
yeah, so was your practice very much impacted by COVID? Did you were you able to continue to operate,
Gabriel 1:14
We had to, as vascular surgery, you know, we're kind of more on the extreme side of medicine, compared to a lot of other professions in healthcare. And there were patients who, you know, for, for one reason or another, they would need, they would, you know, have an ischemic leg or cut something off, or, you know, there is a lot of that going on, and some very sick patients. And so, regardless of how income was coming in, or what we were doing, we we showed up, you know, it was all hands on deck, we showed up for work every day, and we found very creative ways to make protective gear very early on, and
Denise 1:59
Fun, Fun days wasn't it?
Gabriel 2:00
We tried. We did our, you know, we did our best, and then as everything else kind of caught up and you know, over the years went out. But um, I'd love to, I'll give you my background, if you want.
Denise 2:12
Please. I'm interested in the fact that you didn't go to school in the US, that, all of that is very interesting to me, especially as a Brit.
Gabriel 2:21
Yeah, of course. So I went to school in the US for two years, or I went to high school, and in Georgia, and I was a big, big football player. So like when you see all the stereotype movies about Southern football and big high schools, and the whole bit and big bands and everything, like that was me. I was that classic student, I played a lot of football and I went to public school, it was a lot of fun. And my dad worked for Coca Cola, making soft drinks. And one day he comes home and he's like, "Hey, I have an opportunity for promotion but we have to move overseas", you know. And in the 90s, that was kind of popular, you know, that classic corporate executive, and they'd have to go overseas and work on a project. He was a chemical engineer.
Denise 3:16
Oh, so's mymy husband,
Gabriel 3:17
Yep, chemical engineer and he's every bit of it, he has books on everything at his house and magazines stacked to the ceiling about it. And so after going over there and checking everything out, I thought, I thought it was pretty cool. It was definitely an adventure, you know, and, in particular with me, I was the oldest in the middle of high school, which is, you know, important in the US. And so he's like, Are you sure, you know, you're going to trade a lot? And I was like, No, I'm, let's do it. And it was very different. So we we moved over to Ireland, Northern, just in the northern part of Dublin. And it was very different. Immigration was very different back in the 90s. Basically, we would you check in at the International Airport, and then once a month or once every other month, the Garda SĂochána, the police force there, they dropped by our house, and they'd walk through it, and then they'd have tea with my parents, and then they would leave.
Denise 4:23
How very civil.
Gabriel 4:23
And then there's several they sign our, they'd initial our passports that we had been there. And that and that's that's how it was and later on when immigration when Ireland became much more popular place for people to migrate to, you know, a more formal visa green card you know, kind of tracking system was adopted, which was good too. I mean, they did I think they did their best you know, and and so anyway, so I went to secondary school there so high school, secondary school over there just for all listeners. And in Britain, they take 'A' levels, which is a big exam towards the end of high school. In Ireland, you take something called a Leaving Cert. And basically you have to score a certain amount of points and based on that point system that determines really what you can apply for. The top ones there, the most popular one would be studying French and Law, at the same time, at Trinity College, that was like, that was the top.
Denise 5:28
That was the cream?
Gabriel 5:29
That was Yeah, I mean, there are so many people that want that. Veterinary was a big deal there. And then, of course, becoming a physician was a big deal. Physical therapy was a big deal. And so those were kind of the upper echelon ones. And I'm sure if there's people from Ireland, and I'm missing one, don't be mad at me. So went through that process. And while I was there, instead of playing US football, I was adopted to a rugby team. And I moved up from playing in secondary school or high school to playing club rugby, and then playing under 21s. For Malahide, which was which was great for me. And it served me well later on. So then, after I went through all that, I realized that in England and in Ireland, you can become, you can go straight to medical school, straight out of high school. And that was very appealing to me. And then when I went back to the US, I saw that as well, that there were specific programs. And so I said, Well, that's for me, and I applied to all of the and interviewed. And my parents were still in Dublin and so Royal College of Surgeons is where I went to medical school, and had a fantastic interview.
Just interrupt you just a bit, because a) it's very, if you really know that that's what you want to do, it makes sense to go straight from high school into medicine. But it's also cheaper, because it's only six years or not eight. And can you speak to the cost of medical training? It has gone up a little bit in the last three years in Britain.
In Ireland, I think it was a little different for me because I had when I was in my interview so So what made me kind of unique was I, my brother, my younger brother, and I'd won an Irish Professors of Botany Award, which is a national science contest put on sponsored by Esat Telecom, back in the day. And we so I, you know, we were able to publish a legitimate research paper when I was 17. And, and that kind of put me in a different spot. And then when I interviewed for a spot, they took eight of us from the US and I think they liked me because I said "Listen, I know your system. I know your weather. I already play rugby for Malahide, under 21s" that piqued their interest, because they had we had a strong rugby team and a lot of boosters around it."And I won't let you down, you know, and I already know you and I know the culture." So I'll blend right in just fine. And they were like, "Well, do you want to play for us? "And I said," Sure." And I got a you know, scholarship for that. And that was it. The interview, it was great. And I was accepted. And it put me on a whole new path. You know, when I my first year after attending it, my parents, my family, my dad's tour of providing service overseas was done with the Coca-Cola company, he returned back to a whole family returned back to Atlanta, Georgia, became, he climbed the ladder a little bit more. And then I stayed over there for another six years, well, five and a half technically. And it was wonderful, you know, I love living over there. So very different system and then finishing there and then going through the Match. And coming back here for general surgery.
Denise 9:06
Was it fairly smooth for you? I mean, the names of drugs are different. But I mean, the basics are the same, of course. But did you find the culture [of medicine] different?
Gabriel 9:16
I think that going through the Match. You know, because you're coming from outside the US even though it was coming from Ireland and Europe, you had to have a little bit more enthusiasm on your application. So you know, I did do rotations in the US. I made sure that I had good letters of recommendation. And then of course I did. I wrote quite a bit. I wrote a lot of publications, you know, in my opinion for being a medical student and just tried to get as involved as I could in that process and I enjoyed it. And then I interviewed it a lot of places. So I think you have to bring a little bit of extra effort there. As you especially if you're going to apply for some of the tougher things. So general surgery at that time was extremely popular because of Grey's Anatomy. You know, everybody wanted to be a general surgeon, which is fine. And it was it was popular. I went to University of Kentucky, and they interviewed that probably 500 applications. They interviewed, I believe, 80 of us, and then they took five. And out of those five, three graduated,
Denise 10:31
The others chose to go other ways. They they took call at surgery and said No, not for me.
Unknown Speaker 10:37
Right. It's not for everybody. So I think once they realize, you know, general surgery is a is a challenging residency, and it's designed to, it's designed to push you because you have as a surgeon, especially general surgeon in the subspecialties, I mean, you have an enormous amount of responsibility to the community, you're making big decisions, you have to have good judgment. And so I think, looking back, you realize that the residency program is not necessarily it's not about the individual. It's about how we're going to produce someone who is going to fit into that role for society, you know. And it's pretty, it's a, it's a long, arduous task. But that's, that's what's required, you know, because you're making big decisions.
Denise 11:27
So you you did four or five years of general before you branched off into vascular?
Gabriel 11:32
Oh, so, programs have changed over the years with time periods. But when I was, in general surgery was very traditional. So it's five years of general surgery. And then two years of vascular fellowship. There were some, you know, a lot of when I was in general surgery, most of the programs were seven years. I think that's what made UK so popular is that they didn't require two year research years, but a lot of programs require a minimum of two research years in general surgery. So it's total seven, some are longer some but but five is what I liked. And that program was popular. Vascular, I stayed on for vascular at U.K. I absolutely loved it there. We had two kids there. My wife was an internist there, she became an assistant professor there. She was in was a breadwinner for a long time, while I was finishing my training, so I, you know, I really, I got to spend it's a special place in my heart.
Denise 12:37
And then you went from there to Texas, or did you go somewhere else first?
Gabriel 12:40
No. So like all good sons-in-law, my wife's family was all in Houston. And for all the young physicians out there, I'll show you what I'll tell you what I did. I think that instead of looking for the job, where it's based in you're looking for income or benefits or something, I think if you really decide where you want to live, like a location, you know, and so I was like, well, we have two kids, and it'd be really nice to live near family. And I was like, we're gonna move to Texas. My wife's like, No, we can move anywhere, like, well, I don't want to be on a plane every couple of months, you know, because it's important. We had her, you know, we had other family members that had had kids that were the exact same age as our kids. And so that family was really, really, really important to me. Because we've been gone for a while, you know, I'd been in Europe, and everybody's here and back and forth. And then in Kentucky, raising a family by yourselves and then trying to have family come in and out. But we were kind of spread all over. So So I applied. So my my tip, if you're looking for jobs is, you know, you can it's okay to call a company like I would call every vascular surgery practice. And I did it for Austin, Texas, Houston and San Antonio. And eventually, someone's going to pick up the phone. And this was like a nine month process. This was not one month, and I give up, you know, I had a spreadsheet, my job was finding a job. And so I was very persistent, in a polite professional manner. And I found a group in San Antonio. And they were like, they picked up the phone. And I was talking to one of the surgeons there and I said, Well, look, I'm moving to Texas. My wife's family's in Houston. I really like your group I'd like to meet you. They said, Well, we're not hiring. And I said, Well, I'm okay with that. I just want to meet you for 30 minutes. I'll pay my own expenses. That's it. And they said, okay, all right. Fine. Be here Monday this day, at seven in the morning. All right, great. So I was there. 30 minutes turned into a few hours a few hours turned into all day. At the end of the day, and I really liked the group, you know, was PVA I mean, amazing, amazing. They're just nice to each other and vascular, you know, sometimes, you know, not all vascular surgeons are cute and cuddly, you know. And, but it was nice. It was a nice environment. People had families, people had grandkids. And so I liked that environment. But anyway, at the end of the day, they said, Well, we like you. We're going to offer you a job. We don't know how much you're gonna we're gonna pay you. So that's fine. Yeah, I like it. We'll figure that part out. And so that's what landed me in San Antonio. And I've been, I've been extremely happy here. It's a great place. If you haven't been to San Antonio. It's
Denise 15:44
I have actually probably in 2005.
Gabriel 15:49
It's a nice place to raise kids. You know, I mean, it's a good it's the it's America's biggest town. You know, it's the seventh largest city in the country. You'd never guess it. But I don't know. It's just a nice place to have kids and have a family and you can get anywhere in 20 minutes. traffic's not too bad. It's always sunny. I mean, except for the month of August gets so hot here you want to cry.
Denise 16:13
That's pretty much everywhere at the moment. Yeah. How hot has it been recently?
Gabriel 16:21
Well, you don't need to turn your oven on to cook anything. You just put it outside in the sun. But no, they had, I would say our hottest day got to about 108, which is a lot. Especially for June. It's cooled down a little bit. Now. It's about 94. But August will run you know, the first summer we were here. In 2013. I think it was over 100 degrees for like three weeks in a row. And that's that's a lot. But outside right now, it's not too bad.
Denise 16:57
And you have air conditioning. So that's good.
Unknown Speaker 16:59
Oh, it's a ...
Denise 17:00
The poor people in Britain and Ireland who are going through, went through, that recently, and don't have, generally don't have, air conditioning. That was
Gabriel 17:07
No, I mean, the only way to survive it. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you just gotta go down to the ocean and get in. Yeah.
Denise 17:14
That's basically what, most of my familylives along the coast of England. So they'll, they trudged to the beach. With the dogs. So, along the way, you you have two children?
Gabriel 17:29
I do I do.
Denise 17:30
And they were both born in Kentucky? How did they enjoy the move? Were they still little? It just oh, they were?
Gabriel 17:38
Yeah, but it was it was cute. Because, you know, you've got these little kiddos, and they had the heavy that they had a heavy Kentucky accent when they moved to exas. I mean, it was it was pretty fun. You know?
Denise 17:53
So how long did it take before they became Texan?
Gabriel 17:57
Few months, and then they're so smart and malleable, you know, they just, you know, they adapt so fast, you know? And so it was it was pretty easy for them. And, and, and we love living here, you know, I mean? Practicing here is good. I've mostly an inner city practice. So we help we help as many people as we can, you know, regardless of their funding status or, or what they need, if they come in to the, to the hospital, we do our best to do everything we can for them, which I think is important.
Denise 18:34
Hospital Aministration is happy to help with that, or, or do you have pushback? Sometimes?
Gabriel 18:42
I don't, I think it's just a mix of trying to just serve the community. I, you know, obviously, hospital administration, they have their own goals that have been set for them by either, you know, the parenting, you know, over the big national oversight that that hospital hospital CEOs can be challenged with. Not that it's a bad thing. It's just, they're trying to run and run their business and at the same time help people. But for the most part, if we do if we have people who are just not that privileged to have insurance or were underserved, we've never had any pushback from the hospital. You know, if they come in through the ER, they've been very good about just letting us take care of them. You know, I'll give them credit for that. I mean, they do they do a good job of that. Nice. And then And then, you know, we just, we just do our best. So
Denise 19:40
So, why don't we talk a little bit because I know you've done, you've got a lot of different things that you do.
Gabriel 19:47
So many subjects. It's crazy.
Denise 19:49
So today, I would really like to talk a bit about the fact that you're a children's book author or a co-author, I should say.
Gabriel 19:56
Yeah, um, that was a new issue. I always enjoy learning new skill sets, and, and experiences. And for those of you out there that have kids, I think that one of the reasons I enjoy new skill sets is because you just never know what you can teach your kids in the future, you know. And so writing, I think, is an important one. And then the other thing was creating the book was a labor of love between my wife and I and so I want to make sure I give full credit. And I'm going to repeat it a bunch of times. So that it that it definitely gets on the air is that the book, I did have the idea, and I did write it. But my, my wife Amita published it, and made it work, and would push me and say, You got to get it done. So yes, I came up with the story. But the real person behind it is my wife.
Denise 20:57
So presumably, these are stories that you were telling your children that
Gabriel 21:02
yeah, so. So like everything when my kids were little, I'd tell them bedtime stories, it was part of what I love being a dad, you know, it's just, that's a good role for me, and eventually kind of ran out of stuff. And so I went on to teach 'em about Nobel Prize winners, which is always fun, you know, you know, we would have another, they'd win a Nobel Prize in something and we would talk about, and then they, we kind of deviated from that and, and they wanted a pet, and we bought them beta fish, which are super easy to take care of, and very forgiving with kids. And so we had two of them. SpiderMan and Dragon
Denise 21:46
Of course, of course.
Gabriel 21:48
And so my kids, they would enjoy them a lot. And what we did was, eventually what I did was I took kind of educational material, and then their pet beta fish, and then I made them beta fish. So that's where you have arya and Krishna are my kids. And it's like 'Arya & Krishna Beta Fish', and all the the adventures that they go on, you know, and I have, I told it, I still tell it. And they're 10 and 12. Now, and I have to make it a little bit older for them. And I make it very funny, and very entertaining. And, you know, they love it. I've told it to them for so long.
Denise 22:29
Is this is this book going to be a series of books?
Gabriel 22:33
It's, it's, it wasn't...
Denise 22:34
The further adventures?
Gabriel 22:36
Yeah, my, I'm definitely chasing it down the rabbit hole. It was never really intended that way, like at first. So that so at first I was telling them all the stories, my kids loved it. My wife would fall asleep to them. And I tried to make them as entertaining as I could. And oftentimes, I would just kind of write down the subject matters of each of the, turned in different stories turn in different chapters. Some of it I recorded a little bit. And when, a couple of years ago, during COVID, my kids and my wife wanted to surprise me. And they hired a ghostwriter. And they were, and they tell the story better than I did, because it's their story. But they were explaining it to the ghostwriter. And unfortunately, it did not work out. So they paid that individual or company, I'm going to keep it broad. And the next thing, you know, we're chasing them to produce something that's a final result, because it was going to be my present. So my wife's like, is it going to get done? Is it this and they're pushing it on and pushing it on? And what came back was disappointing, to say the least. And and we're like, hey, you know, okay, well, where's our money? And they're like, gone, right. So they go, you know, and then later on, we found out that there are a lot more, you have to be careful because it can be kind of scammy I'm not saying that's what we went through, but it felt like that. And then they [Amita, Arya and Krisna] came to me. And they were like, Hey, we this is what we wanted to do. And we're sorry, but, you know, it didn't work out. And I was like, Well, I guess I'll start writing. And so that weekend, I banged out like the bulk of the story just like the the meat, the meat of it, you know. And I wrote the first 15 chapters. And then I was a very good technical writer for research. And, you know, it depends on who you ask. Some people are way better than I am. I mean, they can crank stuff out and it's just like, I don't know how you do this. But I always felt like I was I was good at it. And then all of a sudden you're right. You're going from research, which is very technical and dry and Like stereo instructions, unless you're truly interested in the subject. And if you're interested, it's fascinating, you know, so I don't want to, I'm not bashing researchers just take, you have to be in the field.
Denise 25:11
And it's a different style.
Gabriel 25:13
It's a different style. And it's very textbooky. So I like, you know, textbook is easy comes easy to me. And then all of a sudden you're writing about characters and development and internal conflict and external conflict, and how to define characters and their personalities, and then put that on paper, so that someone who can't see into your head can read that in and formed their picture, you know,
Denise 25:40
Their picture of your idea, Yeah,
Gabriel 25:41
yeah. So and So,
Denise 25:43
If somebody if somebody thinks they've got an idea for a book, what do you what would you suggest would be their first? Obviously, you probably should write something down.
Gabriel 25:53
Yeah, well, first of all, first of all, what I would say is so well, here, I'll get I'll come to that question in a minute. But so anyway, so I wrote the book, we found a manager, April Cox is her name, on Facebook. She was fantastic. She didn't, she all she did was manage the project. And then through her, we were able to, and it wasn't easy. Find editors. And it took some interviewing, and then we found a graphic designer, and illustrators, and illustrations was probably the most challenging part. It's not like someone's gonna read your book and crank out a couple of pictures. It is a long, arduous process. And the funny part was, the graphic design was probably the most important part, because they're the ones, they had this talent to take it from pictures and in text to make it look like a book. And so if I was going to say, and I'm going to come back to writing it, but don't go cheap on a graphic design, like pay them, pay them what they're worth, and they can take, and they will take your pieces of your book, and then form it together, and get it ready for professional load. So that's that. Now I gotta come back to your question that right? How do you start, I would say, really look at your time, and see how much time you want to put into it. It's a longer process, because you're not only learning, you're not only writing your book, but you're also learning how to write one. And then at the same time, you're learning how to manage one, and getting ISBN numbers sorted out in editing. And if you want illustrations, illustrations, and trying to make it entertaining for the reader, and provide value to the reader, that's very important. And so all that takes time and you become a better writer, like I can tell you I'm a better I'm a better character writer now than it was a year and a half ago.
Denise 27:55
Practice, practice helps everything
Gabriel 27:58
Yeah, trial and error. And people would read it. And they'd be like, What are you trying to say here? And I'm like, Okay, let me delete, delete, go back, I probably wrote the thing 10 times. And so I would say it's a labor of love. And you got to put some, it's not as easy as you think. I mean, you got to put some time into it. For even the most simple story. After we published it, then the fun part starts, because it depends on what your intentions are mine, I wrote it for my family and my kids to kind of cherish the bedtime stories that I told them, so I wasn't too motivated to sell a bunch of copies. You are going to spend some money doing this. You could spend anywhere from you know, 500 bucks to $100,000. You know, I mean, you know, we didn't spend near that much, but, but certainly you spend a couple thousand dollars doing it right. And then after we put it together, and my wife gave us credit for that. She was the architect behind absolutely everything. Amita it was like, on the phone with an illustrator at 930 at night, you know, all the time, not not like, Oh, we did it once and it was so tough. No, no, this was like weekly, bi weekly, you know, twice a week meetings and arguing over one single picture. There's 42 of them in the book. And so that was part of it. And then the I think the other thing about it was when it came out and you publish it, it's like it was awesome, you know, seeing you know your name and friend, and then I wanted to meet that to be an author with me. So I'm like, you, you did so much. You know, I was like you got to be an author. She's like, I don't want to be on the front cover. And I being being a good husband. I asked to the point where I got in trouble. So, and then she's like, Stop, ask, I'm like, Okay. And I wrote her a nice dedication page in there. Because credit has to be given where credit's due. And that's what she wanted. So I did what I was told. And she's happy. Oh, yeah, that's very, that's, that's the secret to life, if you just do what you're told you'll be good. And, and it's been a lot of fun. We, we, for fun, will order free copies. And you know how to have those little libraries. You know, like, the neighbor library
Oh the Little Free Library.
Oh, yeah. Like, well we go around like a little fairy. And it's like, we'll put like two in there, you know, for fun. And then little message, check us out on Amazon. And now it's a nice hobby, you know, that, that my wife and I have together.
Denise 30:50
Are the kids still involved?
Gabriel 30:52
They are. I was a bit nervous. Because when you have a middle schooler, and you're writing a children's, it's a long book, it's 124 page book, you know, and it's got 42 illustrations in it. And we did a nice job on it. I was not sure how my daughter was going to how she was going to be involved, you know, because she's older now. She's in middle school, and they were still pretty good about it. You know? They were like, hey, we want to do some illustrations. I'm like, we'll take anything. I was like, if you guys want to draw the pictures for the next book, and I am I'm writing a second one.
Denise 31:32
Also about beta fish or a different subject.
Gabriel 31:34
Oh, no,it's so there's this. So I wrote the first. So the first book is the first 15 Chapter. But in my head, I have about like 155 chapters.
Denise 31:45
Okay, so it's a sequel,
Gabriel 31:47
I guess. I mean, yes, as long as I can find time for it. And so I've started writing a second one about halfway into it. And then for fun, in I didn't write this, my wife did. So Amita wrote, because we're big on kids reading and writing. It's important to us, we have small foundation. So she created an Arya and Krishna beta fish adventures. It's called your adventure awaits. And it's blank. It's the same book. But it's like, and so kids can write their own stories, it asks them questions about their characters and everything that that I was kind of asked
Denise 32:29
to encourage in future authors. That's wonderful.
Gabriel 32:32
Right? Yeah. And so, so we had fun with that. And then we wanted to have some fun on Kickstarter. And so I put together a little packet for Kickstarter, not to raise much, but mostly just to do it. Because again, it's an experience for an activity book. So that'll come out later, later this month or September. You know, it's like, cross everything to do with beta fish. So it's like crossword puzzles, connect the dots, all kinds of stuffs about 30 pages, and then that's fine. And we've had some other fun stuff. We made a beta fish luggage tags. And when I've when when I mean, we, I mean my wife, I'll be usually I'll be driving and we'll be visiting family. And she's like, Hey, do you like this? And it's like, Arya and Krishna Beta Fish socks? You know? We're like, sure. Okay. I was like, why not? Let's just get some merch go. And you know, and then I was like, so we're, we're having fun, you know? And I think it's, I think it's good in the story. I did put my family members in it. And I put some internal jokes in there, which are always good. And so my, my in-laws, and, and then on my side of the family, I think they, you know, they just like being in the story.
Denise 33:58
Yeah. That's lovely. It's a lovely little bit of a legacy for your kids and your grandchildren down the road. It's really wonderful.
Gabriel 34:07
Yeah. And I like to, you know, my wife and I did it together. That's nice. And so, so anyway, so that's kind of it. So if people do want to check it out, I always have to, you know, give my pitch so they can, they can see it on Amazon. It's the adventures of Arya and Krishna Beta Fish.
Denise 34:27
I'll make sure it's in the show notes and people go to link to link to Amazon, or though
Gabriel 34:32
Thank you. Thank you.
Denise 34:33
I mean, does it sell anywhere other than Amazon? Because some people don't like to support Amazon?
Gabriel 34:38
No, not right now. But we are I can tell you that we are learning. And eventually we'll we'll branch outside of it. It was just that was the kind of the easiest place to start. But it doesn't mean it's the final destination for us.
Denise 34:55
It's great. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been lovely having you To guess Thank you. You're welcome.
Thank you for joining us at Myth Magic Medicine. If you have found this episode useful, you can apply for free CME credits for the link provided in the transcript. If you're not a medical professional, please remember, while we're physicians, we're not your physicians, so please consult with your own health care professional if you think something you have heard might apply to you or a loved one. Until next time, bye bye
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