Audio Upload | Nov 9, 2023 2:34 PM
Nov 9, 2023 • 2:03 PM - 2:35 PM • Denise Billen-Mejia • Audio Upload
Speaker 0
00:06
Welcome again to Myth, Magic, Medicine, today Dr. Harry Nima Zagarra! Hi, Harry. Thank you so much for joining me today. You
arrived in the US in what year?
Speaker 0
00:18
I know you're from Lima, but when did you get to the US?
Speaker 1
00:21
Yes. So we came in 2007. First, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 0
00:25
Very recent. Very recent.
Speaker 1
00:28
Okay. In 2007? Yeah. Well, yeah, it's recent now. It's like 16-17 years.
Speaker 0
00:33
I'm old. It feels very recent to me. So you trained in Lima?
Speaker 1
00:40
Yes.
Speaker 0
00:41
Can you talk a little bit about the system that they use? Is it very similar to that system that they use in the Caribbean? Most of
Caribbean schools use the French system of anatomy and you usually don't do undergraduate, you go straight to medical school?
Speaker 1
00:57
Yes, that's correct. I mean, it's a little bit different here in the US. Right. So we actually start like in, in our regular school. Right? Like in
school we don't have like elementary, middle and high school. So we only have like elementary and high school.
Speaker 1
01:12
Right. And after that, you train and you study, right, for an admission test. Right? So there's thousands of people going to the place,
and they take the test, everyone, like, the same day. And after that, the results come, and then they decide if you're in or not.
Speaker 1
01:32
Alright.
Speaker 0
01:34
Is it a National exam? And then they tell you which school you can go to. Or do you sit for a particular school?
Speaker 1
01:40
It's for a particular school, yes. So each school has its independent test, and because of that, sometimes it's difficult when two
schools have the test the same day. Right? Exactly.
Speaker 0
01:57
Yeah. One has to be grateful, here, at least. Even though I don't really like the MCAT, at least they have one system of exams here. So
did you come from a medical background? Was your family in medicine?
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Speaker 1
02:12
No, actually, that's very interesting. I mean, I'm first generation that went to college. My family, we come from humble beginnings,
actually. My mom and my dad, too, they were not able to go to college, so my mom had, like, a beauty salon, and she was also doing
other kind of businesses, including the real estate. So. Yeah, no, I mean, I was like the first generation to go to school.
Speaker 0
02:40
What inspired you to go into medicine?
Speaker 1
02:43
Well, big thing. It was my mom, right? So I saw her, how she would devote her life and work so hard for my sister and I. Right. To give
us better opportunities and education for both, actually. And again, at some point, to be able to go abroad, right?
Speaker 0
03:06
Mmhmm. Yes. For so many immigrants from so many countries, you need to go somewhere else to get the further education that you
need.
Speaker 1
03:14
That's correct, yes.
Speaker 0
03:16
So how long is education, the medical education there in Peru, to get a first degree?
Speaker 1
03:22
Yes, it depends on the medical school. So it used to depend on the medical school. It used to be either seven or eight years. Now it's
more like standardized. It's only seven years. Right. But again, if you take into account like the undergrad and the graduate school, it's
almost like the same.
Speaker 0
03:37
Right, true. Does the basic medical education that you get before you get your doctorate degree include an internship?
Speaker 1
03:46
Yes.
Speaker 0
03:48
And you are licensed and you can work as soon as you get your degree?
Speaker 1
03:52
Yeah, that's correct. So you just need to get your license and again, you need to write a thesis or something like that, and then you can
work directly as a physician. Yeah.
Speaker 0
04:02
Did you do that for a while there?
Speaker 1
04:05
Yes. Also at the time I finished medical school, yes. I had the feeling and I really wanted to come to the US to continue my training, but
I wasn't 100% sure. So after medical school, there's a year that you also do to serve your country and go to the underserved areas in
Peru, which also helps when you try to go into residency in Peru. So I was doing that in part because of that, but also in part because I
wanted to save some money to take the test to come here to the US and also the trips and all of that.
Speaker 0
04:41
It. I think a lot of Americans. Oh, that isn't very much. No, it's not very much in American money, getting other people's money. It's a lot
of money.
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Speaker 1
04:48
It's very expensive. Very expensive. And the trips. Oh, my *** they're expensive.
Speaker 0
04:55
Did you come to the country first or did you just sit the exams in Peru and when you got a place, you came?
Speaker 1
05:03
Yeah. So we're lucky that in Lima I come from, we have. There are a couple of places where you can take the first steps. Right. Like
Step 1 and Step 2. Of course, when I was in training and when I was applying here, there was what is called the Clinical Skills where
you should come here to the US. There were, I think, at that time, like six places, right?
Speaker 1
05:24
Like Houston, Atlanta, New York, Chicago. Right.
Speaker 0
05:29
Philadelphia. They stopped it because of COVID There's not seem to be much of an appetite to bring it back. It was bad enough for the
Americans to have to go to very expensive areas to take those exams, for foreigners - really a problem.
Speaker 1
05:46
Yeah. So again, I came to the US for the first time when actually I was about to take the Clinical Skills. I came like, I believe 5 days or 7
days before the test. And I was there in my room in the hotel, just training all the questions and answers with another doctor, also from
abroad. It was funny, but, yeah, this kind of.
Speaker 0
06:06
Did you know this person before you met?
Speaker 1
06:08
No, not at all. I mean, we just met in the hotel. And again, there were a couple of doctors from abroad that were training for that test.
Speaker 0
06:17
Mmhmm. Yeah, very nerve wracking. But you got through it. How long? There's also about two months between finishing it and
passed and knowing whether you passed or not. So you went back to Peru or you stayed in the US while you were waiting for the
results?
Speaker 1
06:34
Yes. So I came to take the test. I was a little bit late for that cycle and I decided to do some rotations here in the US, because I haven't
come before and that's very important when you're a doctor from abroad, right? So you want to have some clinical experience here in
the US, even as an observership. Right? So I stayed here for a couple of months and then unfortunately I wasn't able to match in the
first cycle, and the reason was the same. So I had taken the Clinical Skills too late.
Speaker 1
07:06
And the result came, I believe, in February or March, when it was too late already. But that laid the ground to continue doing other
things. Right. I was fortunate that for the next cycle I was able to take the Step 3 , so it was even better my application and also on
that, like, I came to the US for more rotations and for the interviews too. And I was coming with my wife too. So with my future wife in
that moment,
Speaker 0
07:37
And she graduated with you. She's also a physician, right?
Speaker 1
07:41
Yes. It was an interesting story. We are from the same medical school. We're from the same year. So we knew each other for years,
like 8 years before we fell in love and we decided to go out together. And also at the end, because we were coming together to the US,
it just made sense, right? Again, we fell in love and the rest is history.
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Speaker 0
08:08
So you got married in Peru though with your families?
Speaker 1
08:11
Yes. Yes. Okay.
Speaker 0
08:13
Yes. Did she come and take the exams at the same time you did or was that yes.
Speaker 1
08:18
So we were in the same class and we were almost parallel and it was just like again in the last year when we were so close to the
match that we decided again to apply together, not as a couple's match but again apply almost in the same cities, in the same
geographic area.
Speaker 0
08:33
The cities who've got more than one hospital there's is a chance.
Speaker 1
08:37
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 0
08:38
Also probably sensible if you were going to. Were you in the same specialty as well?
Speaker 1
08:43
No, she's family medicine and I was applying for internal medicine initially. Yeah.
Speaker 0
08:48
So there isn't the scheduling issue. But if you're in the same specialty in the same year, you can't get time off together and it's hard
enough without that on top of it.
Speaker 1
08:59
Yes.
Speaker 0
09:00
So. once you were on the right cycle, you didn't have to wait another one. You went into internal medicine.
Speaker 1
09:12
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 0
09:13
Did you know at the time what your ultimate subspecialty would be? Or was it just the smorgasbord of all sorts of things that you
could look at at that time?
Speaker 1
09:22
I knew already. I knew that I really liked pulmonary. I haven't been that exposed to critical care in my country, because in my country, in
Peru, the specialties are separate, right? So you either do like a pulmonary or critical care, but here in the US, it's together, right? So I
had been exposed to surgical critical care and it was okay, but it was not really exciting, like, in that moment to me, right. So I wanted
to be exposed to critical care in my residency. So that's why I asked for extra time in the ICU.
Speaker 1
09:57
Silly me, right?
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Speaker 0
09:58
Initially, usually people are quite happy to let you do that.
Speaker 1
10:03
Yes, that's correct. Yeah, that's right. Oh, please, be my guest. I can stay another month if you want.
Speaker 0
10:09
That's good. So that was your first love and you placed. Where did you actually do your residency? I forgot, you said you were in the
same town, but you didn't say which town that was.
Speaker 1
10:21
Yeah, so we were like, in Pennsylvania. It was in the Lehigh Valley area, like the city is called, Bethlehem. And we were very lucky and
blessed that again, we didn't match in the same hospital, but it was in the same area.
Speaker 0
10:35
I didn't tell you. In the 50 years I've lived in the United States, I'm originally from England. I have lived, lived in Catasauqua Oh, which is
right next door to Bethlehem.
Speaker 1
10:48
Yeah, I did my residency in St. Luke's. Okay.
Speaker 0
10:50
Okay. I was there before your time. So where did your wife go? Where did she wind up?
Speaker 1
10:56
She went to Sacred Heart Hospital in Allentown. So it's like Bethlehem. Allentown Easton. Right. So I was in Bethlehem. She was in
Allentown. Like, the difference is only ten minutes in driving.
Speaker 1
11:10
Right? Ten or 15 minutes in driving. So we were able to live together during all our residency. Allentown. She did Family Medicine
there.
Speaker 0
11:19
Yeah, I worked in the ER/Urgent Care at Sacred Heart, but well before your time. So you both finished your residency at the same time?
Speaker 1
11:31
No, actually, I finished my residency a year earlier than her. So, I mean, I applied and I got in the match one year before her.
Speaker 0
11:40
Oh, I see. Okay.
Speaker 1
11:42
Yeah. And that's also part of the reason why after my residency, I looked for a job kind of close by the like, so I can work and we
continue living together. And also at the same time, I was making my CV stronger, more competitive. Right. So after the residency, I
was working for two years in Philadelphia and one of the UPenn hospitals in the Penn Presbyterian, in the ICU. Again, as an ICU
hospitalist.
Speaker 0
12:12
Good and your wife was with you or you were commuting?
Speaker 1
12:16
Yeah, I was commuting every day, right. It was not every day, I mean it was like 16 shifts a month or something like that. So it was like
the model of seven on and seven off or something like that. Okay, so it was not terrible, but it was difficult during the winter as you can
imagine, like with snowstorms, quite a bit of snow up that way with the freezing rain. But yeah, I learned how to drive in snow with a
small Corolla. Fantastic.
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Speaker 0
12:46
Was it, sort of an aside from that, but did you find adjusting because Lima has its cold times, doesn't it?
Speaker 1
12:54
It's not that cole, I mean, it's actually very temperate. It's kind of similar to California if you think about it.
Speaker 0
13:01
Oh, really? I always thought was assumed it was up a mountain so it's be cold. So you were commuting as she finished her third year
in Family Medicine and then she started work or did she start subspecialty training as well?
Speaker 1
13:19
Yeah. So the great thing is that the great news for us was that she got pregnant her last year of residency. So very soon after she
finished her residency, we had our first boy or first baby.
Speaker 0
13:32
Congratulations.
Speaker 1
13:34
Thank you. Thank you. It was a blessing. It was the best thing. It was like the best timing. Right? So she just had finished her
residency.
Speaker 1
13:43
I was were just working as a hospitalist, and I had the time to spend with her and the baby. Right? Yeah. And it was great.
Speaker 0
13:53
So she took a year off to be able to be with the baby before she did her specialty. What's her subspecialty?
Speaker 1
14:01
She's mainly in General Family Medicine?
Speaker 0
14:04
Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. I thought when you were speaking before, that's why she was in training still when you finished. Because she was
still doing her residency. I thought she had done a fellowship. Okay, so she's not a hospitalist, though, neither,
Speaker 0
14:20
You're in care now?
Speaker 1
14:22
Yes. So I actually work now, like in Dallas Fort Worth, so I'm full-time here. I'm in Pulmonary and Critical Care. Yeah, most of the time,
probably 80% of the time I devote to Critical Care and 20% to Pulmonary.
Speaker 0
14:37
Was that because you wanted to be in a warmer climate?
Speaker 1
14:45
We always thought that we were going to come back to the East coast because we love the mean. So we had been in Pennsylvania
and also in Virginia, like in Virginia, because of the fellowship of the Pulm/Critical Care training. And we love the area. We love the
nature and all of that. But we came here to Texas in part of the immigration work and paperwork that we needed to do because of the
offer, too. But once we came here, we really loved the area, so we decided to stay.
Speaker 0
15:15
You came under a J-1 or an H-2.
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Speaker 1
15:17
H-1, an H-1
Speaker 0
15:22
Were you both on H-1s or were you the primary and your wife got a
Speaker 1
15:29
I was on an H1 and when she applied, she also get her own H1 because we both did a Step 3, like before applying to residency.
Speaker 0
15:39
How long since most Americans are oblivious to the intricacies of immigration? How long did that process take to a, get the visa?
Admittedly, it helps to be in medicine because they need doctors. And how long did it take? Are you citizens now?
Speaker 1
15:57
Yes, we're citizens now.
Speaker 0
15:59
How long did it take to do that changeover from an H-1 to a green card to citizen.
Speaker 1
16:03
It's such. In theory, since you came, I mean, you're three years on H-1. Then after that you can get an employer and the employer can
sponsor your green card. And after two years, you get the green card, two or three years. So that's six years and five years more, and
then you can apply for citizenship. Right.
Speaker 1
16:24
That's 10-11 years probably.
Speaker 0
16:26
All right, so you have recent citizens.
Speaker 1
16:28
Yes, have been for a year and a half, two years. (With American children!) They were born and we feel like the US and America is our
home now. Right. We have been here for so long. We are so Americanized, when we go back to Peru, of course, we love our food, our
family and friends and all of that, I mean, it's a little bit different. Right. You feel like home here.
Speaker 0
16:56
Are your family members able to come up here and visit?
Speaker 1
17:00
So most of our family is back in Peru still. Right. And you can imagine right? Mom, dad, her dad and brother, who is also a physician
who works over there, they are so used to Peru and Peru's home. Right. They come here also because they love us and all of that, their
grandchildren. But they just want to go back to Peru as quick as possible every time they can.
Speaker 0
17:26
Yeah. It's a long trip, too. It's a pretty long flight. Yes.
Speaker 1
17:30
Yes.
Speaker 0
17:32
So what do you think? You've been practicing here for a long time, actually much longer now even than you were in school and
practicing there. But do you feel there's a huge difference in the way medicine is practiced? Or experienced by the patient. Yeah. Do
you feel there's a huge difference in the philosophy of medicine comparing Peru to the US
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Speaker 1
17:59
Yes. No, absolutely. In Peru, you can imagine we're a third world country, right. So we have very limited resources. So the medicine,
how it's practiced in Peru, even until when I came, like ten years ago or 15 years ago, it was more like the paternalistic type of
medicine. Right? Of course you have the best intentions and you have taken the Hippocratic Oath, but to some degree, you kind of
guide your patient in telling him or her what's the best thing for the loved ones.
Speaker 1
18:35
Right. Not necessarily giving a bunch of information that sometimes can confuse the people more, but again, just trying what is to do
the right thing. And the appropriate thing here in the US is a little bit different. I mean, of course we disclose most of the things or
absolutely everything, right? So the patient and family can take an informed decision, and you can imagine, right? I'm in Pulm-Critical
Care. I work in the ICU.
Speaker 1
19:04
I deal with life and death every moment, every single day. So it's important to have that clarity, that transparency, but also like, to have
the rapport not just with the patient, but also with the family. Right. For many of us who work in the ICU, we see this every single day.
Right. But if you imagine like just going to the ICU or just being intubated or in the breathing machine, it's a big, big thing. I mean, that
changes your life.
Speaker 1
19:35
Right? So we sometimes forget about that. Because we do.
Speaker 0
19:39
Because that is our comfort zone. Exactly. Not being intubated. It's very different when you're the patient, but when you're the doctor,
you forget how terrifying the place is. Yes. You know what? All the funny noises are so.
Speaker 0
19:56
Part of the reason I started this series, not the podcast, but this Season 3, is because I was talking with ...from Uzbekistan, and when I
was talking with her, in general, she said, that she couldn't give people bad news in her homeland. It was considered cruel to burden
the patient with that. So you told them what to do, and you tell the family as much as you think the family would understand, which I
sometimes think is much kinder. But of course. You know, it took you eight years to learn medicine. It took me pretty much the same
amount of time. You can't give that to a patient and ask them to evaluate what you're explaining to them.
Speaker 0
20:44
So the trust thing has to be there. And at some point you're going to have to say this choice or this choice not. Here's a list of things
that you could do.
Speaker 1
20:55
Yes, absolutely. And that's also some of the things that we usually try to do when we're in the ICU. For example, as you were saying,
some of the defense mechanisms. Right. So we sometimes try to be very "professional" , very technical on things, but that's not
necessarily like the way that you should do things. Right. Because if you tell that to a layperson, he or she's not going to understand
that.
Speaker 1
21:21
Right. So you need to be on the same ground and the same level of this other person.
Speaker 0
21:26
And also, when you're telling people terrible news and it's terrible to them, it's probably one of the worst days of their life.
Speaker 1
21:31
Absolutely.
Speaker 0
21:32
They have a buzing in their ears that what you're saying is just going in for like, you've got to repeat it many times, circle around an
hour or two later and make sure they retained what you said to them.
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Speaker 1
21:44
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 0
21:46
What's your average day, hour wise? How much time are you at the hospital?
Speaker 1
21:51
Yeah. So I'm very grateful that, again, our group is kind of like a big group actually in the hospital. So I usually work 17-18 shifts a
month and every time we're there our schedule is kind of different. Right. So there may be some weeks that I'm working in the morning,
some weeks I'm working in the afternoon, or mid afternoon, even, sometimes I'm working nights. So if you ask, how's your schedule? I
mean, it's very difficult to explain but yeah.
Speaker 1
22:22
The average is eight to 12 hours.
Speaker 0
22:25
Okay. How many days a week?
Speaker 1
22:29
But again, it's an average of 17 to 18 days a month.
Speaker 0
22:33
So much more civilized than residency.
Speaker 1
22:37
Yes.
Speaker 0
22:38
Residency is very hard.
Speaker 1
22:40
Yeah. Yeah. That? Yeah. No, but honestly, I cannot complain, really. It's a big hospital we have help, we work with residents, with
medical students, with fellows, with APPs.
Speaker 1
22:54
So we have a lot of help. So we are able, again, to have the time to stay with the patients and also do some teaching and the rounds
with APPs.
Speaker 0
23:06
You're happy and you don't see yourself leaving where you are now.
Speaker 1
23:10
Well, [sudden desire to go to Alaska or something?] there's no perfect thing for anyone, I guess, in this work, right? And you have to
learn to take the good things and be grateful for the good things that you have or you have accomplished. Right? Like before coming
to Dallas, I was in McAllen for two years, and I was in another completely different setting. I was like in private practice. So very hectic,
very quick, a lot of work, you maybe make more money, but at the same time you have friends outside your group and outside your
group and also Hispanic doctors and all of that here. I also have very good friends in my practice and all of that.
Speaker 1
23:57
But it's more structured. Again, you feel sometimes you may not have the freedom of, for example, just going home and have lunch
and you need to be in the hospital actually all the time. Right. But it's just like a different setup. Right. And you need that just to get
used. The only change that I probably, and this is pretty much the same with any hospitalist or ICU doctor, right.
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Speaker 1
24:23
I wish I would do less weekends, probably. And I wish I would do less nights. Right. And at some point that's what we are aiming, right.
So again, to have more time on the weekends and nights, like to be with family or do the things that you like to do. Right.
Speaker 0
24:40
So what do you do outside of the world of medicine? What other things are you interested in?
Speaker 1
24:48
A couple of things. So one of the things is that I like to run. And actually I didn't discover that passion until I came to the US. So I run.
Speaker 0
25:01
Competetively or just for fun?
Speaker 1
25:03
It for fun, but I try now to get more of it now and go higher and higher. Right. So I ran my first half marathon when I was in my last year
of residency and then after that I ran another one and then I left it for ten or eleven years when my two kids were born and I was in
fellowship. And now in the last two years I have picked it up and I have run two half marathons. And I just recently, two months ago, I
ran my first full marathon. So I'm really into that. I really like that.
Speaker 1
25:33
I think also part of your health. Right. And also sometimes that helps me. When you have a stressful day or a very busy day, you will
think you're tired and busy and stressed, so you're going to do more stuff? Yeah. But again, it's something that different stuff you like
and it's outside medicine. Right.
Speaker 1
25:51
And all of that. Yes. Also for five years almost now we also do real estate like my wife and I. So we have our single family homes and
we also do some commercial real estate. Right. Just to be busy and have fun with everything and just have something different to
worry about. Yes.
Speaker 0
26:12
How about your kids? How many children do you have?
Speaker 1
26:15
So we have two kids. We have two kids, two boys. And you can imagine how is the house.
Speaker 0
26:20
Yes, I can. I had three, but they're in the 30s. Eventually they grow. Okay, so what stage are they in school.
Speaker 1
26:28
One is eleven years old and the other one is eight. So actually today was their first day of school. So we took their kids school today.
Speaker 0
26:36
Go so early in the summer back down there, but you get out early. Have either of them expressed an interested in medicine with two
parents as physicians? My kids said, my husband's an engineer. And all of them coming up said, not going to be a doctor. Not going
to be an engineer. Got a doctor, got an engineer.
Speaker 1
26:58
We haven't asked that question again in detail to them. Right. It's just like a general, hey, what would you like to do when you're older?
And they say, like, of course, like a police or an astronaut other, or like a soccer player. Right. But it's nothing that my wife or myself, we
would want to put a pressure on them on doing that. I have told them whatever they try to do or decide to do, we're going to be
supporting them, but they need to really put their effort on that.
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Speaker 0
27:29
Yeah. We felt exactly the same way that they just announced without any prompting they weren't going to do this. And as I said, I've
got three sons. One's a doctor, one's an engineer, one's an urban planner. He managed to escape us. They just announced one day, I've
decided I'm going to do this. Okay.
Speaker 0
27:54
Yeah. But did. Do you ever go back and do anything medical in Peru or you just go back and visit?
Speaker 1
28:02
So, so that's in the mean. And we have come in our journey here in the US from, again, just barely being able to make it to the US to
being now more comfortable. And now we have the time to do other things, like running or real estate or things with our kids or
traveling, even. And that, I believe, always is like the last part of you as a human being to be able to give back what you have gained
over the years to other people. Right. So, yeah, that's absolutely. We haven't been able to do, I mean, I was able to do a couple of, only
one day, some medical campaigns in Peru, but long time ago.
Speaker 1
28:48
But that's in our plans at some point.
Speaker 0
28:54
Do you have any other words of wisdom for people? What do you most miss about Peru? And what do you most enjoy about being in
America?
Speaker 1
29:04
I miss all about Peru.
Speaker 0
29:07
My family, obviously, doesn't matter where you are, you're going to miss your family. But what cannot be reproduced here?
Speaker 1
29:15
The food. The food. Absolutely. Like, we have very good restaurants here, even in Dallas. But the food is different. I mean, it's not
completely. And all the spices are a little bit different.
Speaker 1
29:27
So you're not going to be able to get authentic Peruvian food until you go back to Peru.
Speaker 0
29:34
And just, I think what you like here from the US, what do you most enjoy about being here, about being in the US, aside from being paid
well as a physician?
Speaker 1
29:45
Yeah. No, I mean, like. I mean, I don't know our life. We don't have necessarily like an exciting life or flashy life or anything like that, but
just being able to have a simple life with wife and kids and spend time together. Of course, we have some money able to earn. Right.
Have, you may say.
Speaker 1
30:14
But the most important thing is that allows you to spend time with your family. Right. And how you spend time with them. Right.
Speaker 0
30:23
Okay. Thank you very much. Do you have anything else you wish to say? Are you doing any courses? Are you teaching? Please give a
plug to whatever it is. Anybody need to buy my house?
Speaker 0
30:38
Go talk to him.
www.sembly.ai
Page 11 of 12
Speaker 1
30:40
No. Again, just grateful for you having me your show. I just want to chat with you. And again, thank you.
Speaker 0
30:49
Thank you. Bye. Thank you for joining us at Myth Magic Medicine. If you have found this episode useful, you can apply for free CME
credit through the link provided in the transcript. If you're not a medical professional, please remember, while we're physicians, we're
not your physicians. So please consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you have heard might apply to
you or a loved one. Until next time.
Speaker 0
31:20
Bye.
www.sembly.ai
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