Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist,
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor turned consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapists talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode. So,Martin, are we gonna get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:39
Yeah, we're gonna get on with the episode Yeah. I thought we could chat this week about something that is, well, it's related to hypnosis, is related to the things hypnosis can help with, but not so much weight management, weight control, but actual eating disorders. And I thought it might be good for our listeners and viewers to explain a few of the different types of eating disorders as well, because there's a lot of misinformation out there.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:13
Well, I mean, you and I both, probably, there isn't a hypnotist in the world who hasn't been asked to help somebody lose weight, that's the standard one is lose weight. And the vast majority of people I see have some form of binge eating that's the most common this generalised just eating overeating, period. But there's also this emotional need to eat, eating your emotions, as I have told you before. So as you you know that get home from, I've had a crappy day at work, I'm going to go and eat a pint of ice cream, and you don't, you're not thinking about it. That kind of stuff, which is a disorder of sorts. You need to help the person find other ways to respond to their frustration, anger and annoyance. But, so you've had some experience with binge eating right? That's what you attributed your own weight issues to?
Martin Furber 2:11
Well, yeah, only with hindsight, looking back, and I didn't realise it at the time.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:17
Sure.
Martin Furber 2:17
But yeah, I mean, as you know, I struggled with my weight for decades, literally for decades. But yeah, I'm gonna look at the periods of time in which I put the weight back on, it wasn't a question of, oh, it just crept up on me by eating say, maybe 500 calories a day more than I needed to, and have the weight creep up on me, as happens with some people over a period. This was a question of, I would just start bingeing. You know, and...
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:46
Were you? Were you doing it? Can you can you think back? Were you doing it in response to a particular trigger? Or was it just, I think I've been good for a week, forget it.
Martin Furber 3:00
There'd be that kind of thing, yeah. But also, it was a question of looking at the patterns. I was either, all my adult life, either gaining weight or losing weight. And I've never stayed the same. I was, you know, once I'd get to a certain point. And that point, each time was higher than that point the time before ie 17 stone, Oh, I need to lose weight. 18 Stone, I need to lose weight or back up to 19 stone.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:30
And stone, for the American viewers is 14 pounds to the stone!
Martin Furber 3:33
14 pounds, yeah. So 20 Stone, 280 pounds. So it was like, I would always get to a certain point and then think, right, I've got to lose weight, and I would. But then as soon as I got to an acceptable weight, I would just revert straight back to the old patterns. And again, it wasn't a question of just portion size, for example. Or, as I say, eating just a few too many calories a day over a period of time and have it creep on me. I would binge eat, yeah. And I would enjoy it, it gave me great comfort, I suppose looking back.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:11
And that is now a recognised eating disorder. For a long time, we referred to it that way. But it's official, it's in the books, there's a code for it, it is something that your physician can help you with. And with all of these eating disorders, you should get checked out by your doctor because all of these weight fluctuations and issues can lead to problems and they can be coming from problems. So yeah, it's something that a hypnotist can help you with. But you do need to make sure your basic health is okay first, and to be adjusting your eating with medical advice. So binge eating for me seems to be related to bulimia, in that, that is what bulimics do. You eat more than you want to, may not necessarily be an inappropriate amount of calories that you're taking in. But you then vomit up the food that you've taken in so that you can negate it.
Martin Furber 5:13
That's the difference between the two, isn't it with bulimia, it's the eating and then the purging. Whereas binge eating disorder there is no purging. And also with bulimia, of course, it may not just be inducing vomiting, it may be the overuse of laxatives.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:29
Yes, yes. And again, that can lead to all sorts of electrolyte imbalances, all sorts of problems.
Martin Furber 5:37
Oh, I would imagine it can cause all kinds of other digestive problems. Yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:43
Problems with your teeth, if you are using vomiting.
Martin Furber 5:46
Yeah, with the acid.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:49
So again, hypnosis can help because it can help with the with the weird messages that are some, for some reason in your head. But again, needs to be done with, with the assistance of doctors to make sure, not that there would ever be a reason for a medical professional to say, Oh, you shouldn't use hypnosis to help you with this. But you don't want to be ignoring the one substituting this is not alternative care. This is additional care.
Martin Furber 6:21
Complementary...
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:22
Correct, correct.
Martin Furber 6:23
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So just assuming then, a client comes to us with a diagnosis from their doctor for binge eating disorder. You know, how would hypnotherapy help them? Because I think our viewers and listeners would like to know that.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:41
I think it is because you're, you're doing the binge eating. We're flipping again, I was trying to move past that. But binge eating, it would help you with the emotional, because you're responding to some sort of emotional thing. Whether it's because you're feeling deprived, because you've been dieting for two weeks, or you're responding to been dieting for two weeks and standing on the scale and finding it hasn't moved a jot, though, then you just say, Oh, forget it. What's the point? Or it's because you've been really good about your weight for two weeks, and you went out with your best friend and she was having ice cream. You thought oh, well, I will. And then you get home and you say well, I've done it now anyway, so I might as well, and then you go off and have three packs of biscuits.
Martin Furber 7:29
Yeah, that, now that last couple of sentences is a typical event in my life frequently, up until a few years ago, obviously.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:38
Right? So how did hypnosis help you get over that, as you're a living case study?
Martin Furber 7:43
I suppose I am. But it was self-hypnosis, remember, even though, yeah, all hypnosis is self hypnosis. I think it stems from the actual studying of the brain that went with it, when I started to study self hypnosis, because I read a lot of books about the sort of methods behind it, rather than reading a book which hypnotised me as such, although, depending on how you define hypnosis, focused attention, they all did that. Yeah, it was looking at a lot of the reasons behind people's weight gain, actually, but again, it wasn't specified as eating disorders as such. It's only now with the knowledge I have looking back, yes, it was definitely binge eating disorder. You know? How did it help? I think, deep down it gave me the confidence to believe in myself. That was the sort of method I went through with self hypnosis, with understanding the language patterns with, learning about how the power of positive suggestions can work, self affirmations, etc. It was a matter of starting to believe in myself and starting to realise that what I was doing wasn't good for me and why did I? Because I never at the time thought I was deliberately harming myself as I did when I smoked cigarettes. I knew I was deliberately harming myself, you know, so..
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:09
So, you didn't recognise as heavy as you were, that that was not good for your health.
Martin Furber 9:15
On some level, yes. But on other levels, it was convincing myself or maybe this is the excuse people look for. I was convincing myself it was good for my mental well being, and it made me feel better.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:29
The eating but being heavy..
Martin Furber 9:31
The weight didn't, so then you start with the same...
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:34
And now we had, so before we started this, of course, we chatted a little bit, but this is very disorganised way of putting something together. But we did have a little bit of a chat to say where we were going. You did say that you felt protected by the extra size. And that's something very much, very many women, they are at some level protecting themselves, protecting themselves from, because they can blame, you know, nobody's asked me out on a Saturday night for X X number of months, you can blame it on the weight. So that's useful, at some level, some secondary agenda there. Or it's to protect you from having to deal with sexuality or all sorts of...
Martin Furber 9:34
Yeah, with me looking back again over the years, it wasn't to protect me so much, in terms of sexuality and self acceptance. I'd done that at a very early age. It was more to do with protecting me from from being gay-bashed, for wants of a better thing, because it happened a lot in my late teens.
Martin Furber 10:20
People would not? You felt that it protected you from being attacked, or during the attack, because there was extra padding.
Martin Furber 10:20
And well, moreover, during the attack, I suppose. It did happen quite a lot. I mean, you know, that's, ancient history now. Thankfully, things have moved on and times have changed. But looking back, that's probably where it stemmed from. But, again, I tend to look forward these days and not look back and overanalyse. It's happened, it's been, it's gone.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:09
As we've pointed out that reliving trauma, just reliving living traumas not useful, but it may be the history of the trauma may be helpful to somebody else, so sorry.
Martin Furber 11:20
No, no problem. But no, it's weird, like I say, looking back exactly why and wherefore, I'm not entirely sure. It was only when, as I started studying, hypnosis, I realised, you know exactly what I was trying to achieve. Because this is the thing I think this is the point we need to get across to everybody with all eating disorders. It's rarely actually about the food.
Martin Furber 11:43
Most never, about the food.
Martin Furber 11:48
It's not about the actual food is the emotional things behind it or the control. If we look at, you know, before we move on, maybe have a look at anorexia.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:56
Yes, anorexia is definitely about control. There's, now I say that, there are also people who need to stay a certain weight, gymnasts, famously.
Martin Furber 12:10
Yes,
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:10
Because they start at pre-puberty. And once you hit puberty, all sorts of things happen to your balance and, not abnormal, but your centre of gravity changes, when there's fat distribution on the body, and muscle distribution, for that matter. So, I don't know about the male gymnasts world, but the female definitely. And there's also the fact that if you seriously don't eat, you don't get your periods, you don't have to, there's all sorts of deep, so it's not, the point of this, let's just underline again, all of these things need to be medically handled, as well as using hypnosis to, because there is, and most hypnotist are not psychologists, or at least not you know, at the doctoral level, where you need a deep understanding of so many different psychological things, all those things work together. So, I'm really happy about my practice, I have psychologists who've worked with people who now send them to me specifically for their hypnosis, and I can send them back. And I think that again, that is what we really want people to understand both hypnotists, who alarmingly, sometimes will believe at face value, what the parent of a child in particular will tell them. And yeah, yeah, my doctor said it was fine, is not a diagnosis. We want to know why this thing is happening and to make sure that there isn't something else underneath it, because for both physicians and therapists, it is do no harm. You can't cover something up, you have to make sure that you're really working with it, but there's no reason that hypnosis can't play a major part in it.
Martin Furber 14:07
Oh, absolutely. I mean, again, looking at anorexia, for example. Okay. It is a mental health condition. Yeah. Okay. It's also the mental health condition with the highest death rate.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:20
Yes.
Martin Furber 14:22
Which is a surprising fact. Given that fact that I would say that emphasises the need to, I would say work, you know, hand in hand with somebody's GP if they've been diagnosed with anorexia, and they're being treated, hopefully, and that person comes to one of us for help. Yeah. In what ways would hypnosis help somebody who is dealing with anorexia? For me, I would say, well, it can certainly remove the stress or help to remove the stress which they must be undergoing. They must be experiencing a lot of stress to be anorexic, on some level.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:59
But it would again, it would depend on the individual and talking with their physician, and talking because it's a community of people working with them. Usually, if you're anorexic you need your physician or psychiatrist, you need a dietician or nutritionist depending on what language you use in your country, even when you're speaking the same one. And a therapist and the therapist. Yeah. So and that's only three of the people. Sometimes it requires physical therapy, because there is muscle loss, there's all sorts of other things can go wrong. There, it can be quite extensive. So it's not, it unfortunately, is another one of those words that people got hold of. Oh, she's anorexic! No! Yes, you can, you can look that way, because you can be too thin. Although, once upon a time, they said you could never be too thin or too rich. But that is not true. But it is a medical diagnosis. Bulimia is a medical diagnosis. Binge eating, to some extent is a medical diagnosis, and it is diagnosable now. Um, you know, if you always binge at Thanksgiving, but the rest of the year you don't overdo it, that's probably not diagnosable. It's not a diagnosis. That's letting yourself go, exactly, and making yourself uncomfortable, which is, of course, the other thing you should, you should try not to, you should eat, until you're not quite full.
Martin Furber 16:34
But, just getting back to what we were talking about, just a second ago, because as usual, we go all over the place you were talking about different things if people been heard binge purge, and, you know, generally, if they have an eating disorder, all the other things that it can do. I mean, it can mess up your gallbladder. Yeah. Heart disease, type two diabetes, it can lead to all kinds of blood pressure. I mean, there's a good one hypnotherapy helps with though.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:01
Oh, blood pressure, yeah.
Martin Furber 17:02
Oh, yeah, blood pressure.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:03
But most people, most, is idiopathic or familial, and is not related to organic dysfunction. It can cause it, but it doesn't erase it. It doesn't occur from that. And again, don't come to me because you went to CVS and checked your blood pressure and decided you wanted me to lower it. I'd be happy to, but you gotta go to your doctor and make sure.
Martin Furber 17:27
Yeah, that's the thing we need to get across, isn't it to people? Yeah, hypnotherapy can help with an awful lot of things. But it is absolutely no substitute ever for going to see your doctor if you've got something wrong with you, something you're unsure of.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:39
And that it's a complementary, an additional thing you can do, that will help you because for everything, even if your illness is not being caused by anxiety, or stress, or whatever you want to call it, the illness will be causing those things. So really, if all hypnotists just ever did, was relieved people's anxiety, it will be helpful.
Martin Furber 18:09
Yeah, well, as you say, any medical condition can be exacerbated by stress.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:15
And any medical condition can cause it, particularly in this country. We've got to figure out how to pay for it.
Martin Furber 18:20
Yeah, you've got to work out how to pay for it. Yeah. What happens over there, if somebody's like, half dead in a car crash and they get shipped to the hospital. Do they get the credit card out of the wallet or something first?
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:34
Yeah, we are required under EMTALA Emergency Medical Treatment Act, probably liability but anyway, you do have to see people who are in active labour or have had an accident or appear to have any sort of. So basically, if you present yourself in the emergency room, you'll get a once over to make sure there's nothing they would then tell you you can leave but almost always they will see you and then they will hound you for a long time for the money. Yeah, irritable bowel syndrome, which is not in the same category as eating disorders. But it's certainly gastric that is also famously helped by hypnosis because there's a huge stress and emotional component to it.
Martin Furber 19:13
Yeah, well IBS treatment of IBS with hypnotherapy is recommended over here by NICE.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:22
Yes, yeah, and they won't pay for it.
Martin Furber 19:24
Well, they won't pay for it. Which is a bit of an oxymoron. But yeah, I mean, without without,
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:31
Because my concern, my concern, actually, when we have, you know, oh, this really works for hypnosis. My concern is if they put them if the insurance companies start to pick it up, they'll make everybody go into hypnosis before they get treatment, and that may not be the best thing for that particular client. Some people don't respond well to hypnosis for lots of different reasons. Like they're not on board. They have to be on board.
Martin Furber 19:58
Okay, okay. I've just thought of something, bang on topic!
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:02
Okay. As a change? Yeah.
Martin Furber 20:07
Bang on topic. Okay, quick explanation. Some just you need to either confirm or deny. Okay, with IBS, with some IBS. It's to do with muscle contractions. Isn't it in the digestive system, the bowel, whatever? Yeah. Okay. Right. Okay. So people may say, How can hypnotherapy control a muscle spasm like that? Okay, well, go on, give me the name for it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:40
Peristalsis is the name of the contraction. I don't know that, I don't know the answer to that specific question. But we know that hypnosis you can can lower your blood pressure. Yeah, it can lower your heart rate.
Martin Furber 20:53
Yeah, but, okay, so how can hypnosis, ie, the power of our thoughts control that? A lttle comparison, I mean, feel free to argue with me on this one. But when we watch that video of the roller coaster, or of the person jumping off a building, we feel a physical flutter in our stomach. And that's just from thought, isn't it? You know just from what we've seen, a physical reaction. Well, that is a physical reaction from what we're thinking. If something really frightens us, we can start shaking. That's a physical reaction from what we're thinking. From what we're seeing. So just thinking that yeah, control all the physical movements within the body from our thoughts. Yeah, I know, I just thought I would throw that one in there.
Denise Billen-Mejia 21:43
Most of the IBS protocols are several weeks long. It's definitely not something you go and say, Okay, here's, here's a nice relaxation tape, go away, you're all fixed now. it's multifactorial. And there there are specific things at specific intervals that we should do. But it's very useful, even if NICE won't pay for it.
Martin Furber 22:07
Yeah, yeah. No, it's a minimum of six sessions with me for IBS.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:12
Over what period of time?
Martin Furber 22:13
Over about three months.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:15
Yeah, so it's, it's 12 weeks?
Martin Furber 22:16
Yeah, yeah, because it's generally a long standing condition. Nobody sort of has IBS for a couple of weeks and things along with, I'll go and get hypnotherapy. They've usually been affected by it for a long period of time. And let's face it, IBS can have serious disruptions to your life, depending on the nature of the IBS. With some people, it's a constipated effect, with others, it's the opposite. You know, and, you know, that can be seriously detrimental to somebody's quality of life can't it? If you've got to work how far they are away from the nearest bathroom every time they go out the front door.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:58
A lot, a lot of conditions require that, age included. But, yeah, we've gone over all over the place even more than we usually do!
Martin Furber 23:09
Well, no we've not, becasue it's all to do with digestive, with eating, eating disorders.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:14
And going to your doctor first making sure everything's ok.
Martin Furber 23:17
It's you that brought IBS in - not me! Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we've got to finish this one off with that disclaimer. Any medical condition, you need to go and see your GP. Hypnotherapy can very probably help with a lot of things, given that anything can be exacerbated by stress, and hypnotherapy certainly helps with that.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:40
Yeah. One of the disclaimers you see on every diet book and diet article and diet, everything else. You will see a disclaimer there somewhere that this is just for your information. And really before you make any changes, you should see your doctor and almost everybody blows that off. Yeah, very well, partly because you can't get a flipping appointment. We tend to be, oh I read this article, I'm going to start tomorrow, then you can't get an appointment with your doctor for two or three weeks. So if you have a significant issue with weight or disordered eating of any kind, make an appointment with your doctor. You can chat with a hypnotist while you're waiting for the appointment. But you have to, you can't start a therapy course until you know that there isn't something. Which is why I like the fact that I do ask all my clients to give me permission to talk directly to their physician. So that I would tell them I was going to but I would make sure that they, that we were hearing the same stories, that we were evaluating no matter what your issue is, make sure there isn't something else organic going on. Hmm, but psychological help is going to be beneficial anyway. Yeah. And as we're hypnotists and not psychologists, with the exception of your qualification. We're primarily hypnotists who would use that to address those background little voices in your head like, you've had a crummy day, go ahead have the ice cream. And the slippery slope stuff like, well, I've blown it now I might just as well carry on what's the point?
Martin Furber 25:23
Yeah, that's the slippery slope stuff, that's, you know, yeah, hypnosis can definitely, absolutely help with that. That is part of it. I've been there so many times so many times over the years. But absolutely, absolutely it can be helped. I mean, my weight has been constant now for what, five years, something like that, it must be.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:48
I can, actually, without identifying the person, I had a I want to lose weight person, who is extremely opinionated about what that person can and cannot do, and will and will not change. And we did a quick hypnosis session in the office and then I sent an audio that had my standard advice, you know, eat three small meals. And that person came back to me the following week and said, I only two meals a day. And I you know, I can't possibly change that, and came back the following week and said, three meals a day, small ones. I love how people have asked for your help. And then they're kind of annoyed when it works. Have you ever had that? I didn't have the client, but a friend who did who helped the person quit smoking, and they were so pissed off. I can't smoke anymore, it's so strange.
Martin Furber 26:50
No, that happened to me. I've had people who say to me, I don't have any trouble sleeping. I don't have any trouble with this with that, with the other, so what you here to see me for then? Because I'm you know, I'm saying these things will help with that issue. And then it's like, I mean, we never do an 'I told you so' routine with our clients do we? It wouldn't be nice anyway. And let's face it, you know, well, it ain't nice. So, I have had a couple of 'I told you so' moments, over the over the years. I mean, most people, this is something that I do find strange, just before we wrap. Most people sort of seem to say to me, it can't really be that simple. When I say to them, everything starts with a good night's sleep. Yeah, the minute you start to sleep better, you can focus better, everything will appear better. The way forward will appear far more clearly. Once you're getting a few good night's sleep.
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:45
That's another one that...
Martin Furber 27:46
They say, it's not that. No, it's not that, it's not like it can't possibly be that. Of course it is!
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:50
Yeah, I have the same thing, people tell me they don't have a sleep issue. And yet when they see me the second time the the first thing they say is, I'm sleeping so much better.
Martin Furber 28:00
Yeah, I get that all the time.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:02
Because you don't really like, you know, I've always had a headache and the headache goes away. Oh, gosh. You just learn to cope with whatever your situation is.
Martin Furber 28:13
That's it, with some people is that long since they've had a good night of proper, restful, really beneficial sleep, that they've forgotten what it is.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:20
Yeah.
Martin Furber 28:21
And when they do experience it again, after the first couple of sessions, or after listening to the audio, it's like 'Wow' and then you know, then they understand, you know what you're talking about. And on that note we could finish for today.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:34
Even though listening to this might sound a little questionable.
Martin Furber 28:38
No, we always know what we're talking about, but we always go all over the place, if our listeners aren't used to that by now they never will be. Denise, I'll catch you on the next one. We've got a guest but I haven't got a clue it is.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:52
Okay,
Martin Furber 28:53
OK catch you on the next one.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:55
Absolutely, bye.
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:03
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only to remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
Martin Furber 29:20
If you found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes. Join us again next week.
