Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist,
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor turned consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapists talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode. Let's talk. So you have a slew of clients right now
Martin Furber 0:40
I do, I have a waiting list.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:41
You're doing very well, yes. How long a waiting list do you have? Is it going to be many sessions before they'll be able to see you?
Martin Furber 0:48
It's about a month now for the next, for the next new one, it's about a month because I don't want to start them off, and then say to them, the next session is going to be two to three weeks after that. I'd rather wait for a break where they can see me regularly and weekly. The issues they're seeing me for is something that will treat over several weeks.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:07
Right. And these are the clients that come in from one particular source.
Martin Furber 1:10
Yeah, yeah, I think..
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:11
So, that can be, you can explain to the person referring them that that's the deal.
Martin Furber 1:16
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if that person knows, but also it's with that kind of thing that I'm doing with them. Repetition is of the essence, so it's like, same day, same time, each day, each week.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:30
I've got into the, I think I was doing. I had a bunch of people come I don't know, I don't think I'm advertising in a particular cycle. But I have a whole bunch of people making ICs and making appointments, and I have people for a month or two. But of course, unfortunately, hypnosis works so fast that they can't stay with you forever. So, I'm now I'm finishing up, I finished with one person, I've got two others that are towards the end of their sessions, and nothing on the horizon. And yet, I've had them, I've had no, that's not true. I've had some people contact me and say I will because they're in my world for other reasons. And they've said, I'll be calling you to have an appointment with you soon.
Martin Furber 2:16
Right? Okay.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:17
But you know, not the, it's very strange, very ebb and flow. I get a whole bunch of people at once and then nobody for a while.
Martin Furber 2:25
Yeah, yeah. The thing is, though, it's like you teach your clients self hypnosis techniques don't you?
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:30
Of course. Yeah.
Martin Furber 2:32
Okay. And I provide audios for them to listen to. And yeah, I do still have a handful of clients. Let's put it that way. A handful who still like to come and see me about once a month or once every six weeks. Just for the therapeutic relaxation, that you know, they feel is better done in person or on Zoom as it happens. But for them, I wouldn't say it's the highlight of their month, but it's something that they look forward to.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:59
Are those mostly confidence clients?
Martin Furber 3:03
Yeah, confidence and anxiety, yeah,
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:05
I have a couple who, who I think rather than would rather like let's go for coffee, rather than therapy, but it's, it's the conversation or the the sense of being understood that is important.
Martin Furber 3:19
It is yeah, and of course, I mean we're both very strong on the pre-talk, the part of the session before the actual hypnosis aren't we? We're both very strong on that. And I think every time I do see a client who I'm seeing, you know, every few weeks, just for, as they call it, a 'top-up' as it were. You can still glean more from them in that first part of the session, in that conversation, in that pre-talk, you can still get those little lightbulb moments, you can still help them recognise something else about themselves.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:52
And I think sometimes clients realise, that things that have been niggling them, but they were..Have you got problems, with your glasses?
Martin Furber 4:00
I just noticed they were lop-sided! I hate this thing, looking at myself in the camera!
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:04
Well, we can do a session on that Martin! The you know, it's like, if a big problem is gone, you have the energy to look at the little problems, the little things that you might want to change. So that tends to be the way people come to me, they've got one issue and we work it out that they got this and this and this as well, but we go sequentially. Let's get rid of the big problem. And then the little one in the little one, but mostly things are by this fifth or sixth session, all of it's gone and they know how to hypnotise themselves if they need to.
Martin Furber 4:45
I've had it though with, I can think of two instances with people with fear of public speaking. Something I tend to do in about three or four sessions, with a mental rehearsal and everything for the, it's usually for a specific event. And, then they've come back to me afterwards and said, Oh, well, can you help me with X Y, Z, sort of thing, because when you're doing it for one particular, one big thing, like fear of public speaking or something. And then they get up there and they do their public speaking, they do that event and it all goes well for them, then, obviously, they've got their own proof that it worked for them. They know beyond any doubt. So then, yeah, they will start asking about, as you say, smaller things.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:32
And they're not necessarily that small, but they just weren't the thing that was front and centre of the problem for them, often with public speaking, that's to do with their career. And, obviously, if you, the people, I have seen this, but they've reached a certain level of management, and they need to be able to do those presentations, or they're not going to advance. And obviously, that takes up a lot of real estate in your head, worrying about how your career's going.
Martin Furber 6:02
Yeah, that's it though, when you've got something like public speaking, and I know from experience with various clients, it is, their whole career's going crashing in front of them, just before they get on stage. If it's something that's a big event for their company, or their boss is there or something like that, yeah. They've said, I can imagine my whole life flashing in front of me, my whole career, you know, there's my job on the line. And, of course, they get more and more wound-up this, I know.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:29
Yes, as you say, so often breathe.
Martin Furber 6:33
Breathe and breathe!
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:36
So are you going to be backpedalling on any of your outreach to the public, whilst you've got this list? I guess, if you're already, if you're already behind with clients, are you going to end up being two months? Three months? Four months? You know?
Martin Furber 6:54
No, because now that I've been going through the cycle over the year, summer goes quiet anyway. So I'm not expecting too many new inquiries over the summer. Unless I get any more for fear of flying.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:09
Well, it's the time of year. Do you? Are you planning on taking some downtime yourself? Will you be cutting back?
Martin Furber 7:15
Oh, I'm going to Belgium in September.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:18
Oh, lovely! So you can go straight through the summer and then take the shoulder time...
Martin Furber 7:22
Well, it's actually the end of August. We have been summoned to a family event. Of course, there's no cat here now, that was too old to go in the cats home. And now she's just no longer with us. So Nick said he's going over there, so I said yeah, I'm coming with you!
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:45
Yep, fair enough. How long - you'll be gone a week?
Martin Furber 7:48
I'm going over for the weekend, becasue I've got courses to deliver either side of it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:54
Oh, I see, so you're not taking time off. That was the question, are you gonna have the time off? You're gonna have a break, but you're not gonna really have a vacation?
Martin Furber 8:01
No, but I'm having all Christmas and New Year off. And I know, we're only in July. But it'll soon be on us.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:06
It will be, it will be, so you're actually just going to shut shop for that period of time?
Martin Furber 8:11
I am absolutely shutting shop for Christmas and New Year. Yes. Absolutely.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:18
Now, there's an interesting question.
Martin Furber 8:19
And if I don't you can scream at me.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:22
I'll be happy to that. How will you manage? Excuse me? How will you manage that, expectation of your clients that you will be there? Will you take on a new client say end of November, and you say okay, and we'll I'll see you up until December 20. And then I won't see you until the new year.
Martin Furber 8:44
It will be, but, obviously, every client is unique, every client's individual so their treatment will be tailored for them. And if it means me making some extra audios or something for them during that Christmas and New Year period. So be it. Ultimately, ultimately, if it was a case where it was vital to their well being, and even if I was away, you know, these days.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:13
You can meet them.
Martin Furber 9:13
I can still meet them on Zoom. It's literally an hour out of my day then. You know, I wouldn't take the laptop onto the beach somewhere, but I can still, I can still help them while I'm on holiday.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:25
Yeah, we're hoping we want to visit one of our sons who lives in Arizona. We want to go in late September, early October. It's the weather is better. Right now, parts of Arizona temperatures 120. So I definitely don't want to go there.
Martin Furber 9:44
You see when I think of Arizona I think of desert.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:45
He's up a mountain, he's mostly around the 70s and 80s right now but they don't have AC and he's not terribly happy at 80. But we want to go there and that if Francisco's still working for the same firm, because he does contract work, he may not he may be done, in which case we can go for however long. But if he can work remotely and I can work remotely, I would go for longer and just see clients through my laptop. Yeah, I don't know if I'd want to see a new client that way. Because it's not as, it's a bigger size, I can see their facial expressions easier on a proper computer. But for all my long standing clients, I think there might be good. Anyway, we'll see. But yes, I am going to take some downtime in the fall as well. But most of the summer is taken with however many clients show up. Who knows, I may have a month off. I've got two people who won't be done until September, but several, at least with the programme that they're doing with me. So we shall see. I shall see. Are you still writing for your newspaper?
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:33
I'm writing for three newspapers now.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:02
Do you see? Do you see a direct correlation between that and seeing clients? Or is it mostly just street cred for the people who are referring? Some of them must have found you that way?
Martin Furber 11:13
Yeah, I think it's just the general awareness thing. I mean, what is it they say in advertising, people have got to sort of see you 11 times or something before they...
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:21
It's certainly more than seven
Martin Furber 11:23
Touch points they call it don't they these days - tapping on the phone? I think it's just the general awareness. People have, I mean, I get different approaches for different things. Oh, yeah! A funny thing happened the other day, a public relations company got in touch with me. Oh, okay, asking if my contact details were correct. So they could send me things about mental health and well being from their clients. If I wanted to publish them. They were approaching me as a writer. You know, in the same way, you might pitch something to a newspaper.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:59
Yes. Okay.
Martin Furber 12:00
So they were pitching me as the newspaper you see.
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:03
Interesting. Yeah. Not sure what your contract with the newspaper is then if you're gonna be using other people's material.
Martin Furber 12:09
Well I'm not! I've them in the picture. No, actually, I write mental health and well being, you know about my own thoughts and offer support and information. I don't know if they were... Well, I don't know, because I ended the conversation.
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:25
I get a lot of PR people contacting me and they clearly, clearly haven't read anything I've actually written. They just grabbed it off a directory.
Martin Furber 12:33
Well, this is what I thought at first, oh, PR, but trying to see if they could do some PR for me. No, it was for their clients to, and they were approaching me as a writer for a newspaper. Anything interesting happened in your week, then?
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:49
No, I've got, connected with hypnotherapy? No. I've got well, I've had three clients who've been thrilled. And that's been very nice. And I will probably be touching base with a couple of physicians who have referred clients because they're coming to the end of their sessions. So I'll be able to give a little report back. I always get permission to contact their doctors. Hopefully that will generate some more referrals. Yeah. And as they get more success stories that they can say to their patients. Yeah, well, that has a patient that helped with this and that Yeah,
Martin Furber 13:29
Yeah. I mean, you can have a psychiatrist so you know, the doctors that believe in hypnotherapy, endorse hypnotherapy but it's better when they can say, and this hypnotherapist has treated likewise any number of my patients, and you know got great results sort of thing. Oh, the other thing I forgot to tell you I'm just trying to find it on my phone, bare with us, viewers and listeners. I've been invited on to a podcast!
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:47
Oh! Which one?
Martin Furber 14:00
I'm just trying to find the name of it. It's a health and fitness one and they wanted to talk to me about hypnotherapy and weight loss.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:06
Oh good.
Martin Furber 14:07
So I said yes, I'm your man. I'll have to let you know how that goes. Perhaps we could put a link to it in our show notes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:15
Absolutely. When will this be occurring do you think>
Martin Furber 14:18
I'm having a conversation with them tomorrow morning with a view to then setting a date for recording.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:24
Oh, so probably won't be in these show notes, but will be in a future episode.
Martin Furber 14:29
A future episode, episode so keep watching.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:33
Good, and that wasn't somebody you know?
Martin Furber 14:36
No, they contacted me right out of the blue.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:39
Excellent!
Martin Furber 14:40
It's some health and fitness podcast ran by one person. I've not got the details to hand otherwise I would say, but I'm having a conversation with them tomorrow morning, with a view to then, you know if we agree everything, then booking a date to record it. So I'm presuming he wants to know about more, more about how hypnotherapy works for people who want to lose weight or get a control of their eating habits, which is what it's really about, it's not about the food is it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:09
Well, it's a diet in the sense that, that which you habitually eat is your diet, but it's not dieting.
Martin Furber 15:16
Yes. Yeah. No, I'm saying though the the issues why people eat more than they need to, to maintain body weight are rarely anything to do with the food itself.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:26
Almost never. Yeah, I have, I only have one weight client at the moment. But I'm sure there will be others. In the near future, there's certainly been several. And it's such a common theme with when I listened when I read anything about it. It just seems to be that the whole diet culture is aimed at women so squarely.
Martin Furber 15:54
Hmm. Well, yeah, there's more and more men these days as well. I mean, you look at the cover of Men's Health magazine, okay. You've generally got somebody with the body-beautiful, 8-pack, perfect muscle, everything, you know, what that person has to do to achieve that body wrapping themselves in cling film and going to bed!
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:14
It's a full time job! Let's put it that way, it's after you turn about 18.
Martin Furber 16:18
It's not real. It's just not real. Nobody looks like that. It's the same as when you see scantily clad beautiful women with the perfect Oh, sorry, let me put that in inverted commas deemed-perfect figure. You know, naturally, they are very, very few and far between. With that kind of shape, you know, it takes obsessive amounts of work. It's not just a matter of saying it takes work. It takes obsessive amounts of work, doesn't it? And these days, of course, lots of surgery for a lot of people.
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:48
Yes, quite probably. But more concerning is the fact that people feel unhappy with their weight simply because they're constantly told they should be unhappy with their weight.
Martin Furber 17:02
Yeah. And yet, okay, let's look at the food industry, food manufacturing. Okay, the manufacturers of all foods, their job is to make it as attractive as possible to you. So you buy as much of it as possible, because their job is just to sell you the food, and they're not bothered how much of it you eat.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:21
No, just long as you put it in the fridge briefly before you throw it away. Of course, the other issue is should we be talking about food manufacturing, shouldn't we grow it, and then slaughter it if necessary, or pick it and cook it. The use of hyper processed Ultra processed foods are really a big issue, when it comes to weight in general,
Martin Furber 17:47
Just something out of interest actually. Because as you as you know, okay, yeah, I lost loads and loads of weight, but I am not what I would say obsessive about my food anymore. Now, and again, I will eat something that's classed as, you know, crap food, and that's fine because I quite like the taste of it. Like a nice kebab or something like that. Now, Nick, this morning, decided to cook a pizza. It was a frozen pizza he bought I won't say the brand name because it's big in America as well. And I don't want the ass suing off me. But it was a certain brand of pizza. Very, very famous, cooked it in the oven said to me, do you want some? And I said, Yeah, okay, I'll have some. I've not had one for years, I'm not a great pizza lover. And I bit into it. And I suddenly realised how sweet they taste. Like the amount of sugar that must be pumped into that. It was like jam on toast. It was that sweet. It was supposed to be perpperoni!
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:45
The sweetness was coming from the tomato? Tomato is a fruit.
Martin Furber 18:49
Yeah, I know, but we're not that sweet, naturally, Denise. This was like, it tasted like jam on toast with pepperoni.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:58
An interesting combination!
Martin Furber 19:00
Because I've not eaten one for ages. I was never a great pizza lover. Fish and chips, yeah, kebeab and chips, that's my kind of things. Never a great pizza lover.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:10
And the thing is, whenever you haven't had a food for a while, it suddenly tastes very, very different.
Martin Furber 19:15
Yeah, it wasn't pleasant. It was like, it just tasted so manufactured.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:21
Nick eats pizza on a regular basis? Dis he have the same response to it?
Martin Furber 19:26
No, no, it was gone before he looked at it. But then he probably burns off around 6000 calories a day anyway. Because he's always outside gardening. Or working.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:39
Yeah, that's his job. That's a lot of, I don't see previous athletes. Some of the people I've seen have been, a decade or two before, have been athletic in their high school and college years. When you are a professional or a serious footballer, whether American or a British version of football, you burn a lot of calories, and you need to eat a lot more. The trouble is that the social aspects of that don't dissociate and so when you're still being social with people and watching TV on TV versions of football, they're still eating as if they're playing.
Martin Furber 20:20
And it's also is where you get those calories from, if you're an athlete and you need 7000 calories a day, you're not going to eat three great big family sized pizzas to get those calories. You're going to eat a lot of chicken, a lot of steak a lot of eggs, a lot of whatever, or even a lot of pasta if they need carbs.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:36
Sure, but even
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:37
if you continue to eat healthy food, in such huge quantity, and not be exercising, it's going to be a problem. But the problem is dissociating food from the social aspects of it, you want to be social, meals should be, you should eat, I have a client at the moment, who is successfully dropping weight. And he's a very active person. He's, and he's very social, but he eats by himself. Okay, because he feels that eating alone, small portions and without any other distraction, including conversation, is helpful to him. And he will then join the family, or friends and watch them eat and he can hold court while he's doing that. Okay. And it works for him. And so far, nobody's complained bitterly that he's not joining them, really.
Martin Furber 21:41
OK, then maybe I don't know, I mean, I don't know the person. But it sounds as if it could lead to something a little bit obsessional.
Denise Billen-Mejia 21:51
Yeah. And that's his concern. It's why he's with me, and he knows that that will work. But I don't know if he would want, it to be sustainable really.
Martin Furber 22:01
Yeah, I mean, I would suggest that in time, he starts to, on one meal out of four, have it sat with the rest of them, and then build it up from there. So it's like anything. I mean, we're both big advocates of the fact that there is no one size fits all with the therapy we do, is there? Every single client is unique.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:25
Frustratingly so at times. But yeah, there are so many similarities. That's it's like I said, there are there is no woman who tells you that she's perfectly happy with her body, mostly because she's been told she's not happy with her body by society. But very few people really are. Whether they have cause or not.
Martin Furber 22:50
Yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:52
For different reasons, it's a different voice in their head. The messages are very similar, but it's a different voice.
Martin Furber 22:57
Yeah, I mean, it is there is far more pressure on women, in terms of looks in terms of their body shape, in terms of everything. There is far more, I feel, far more pressure on women than on men. But, you know, a lot of this stuff's catching up now with men, Denise, especially with the younger generation. As I say, if you look at the men's health magazines, and that kind of thing, that the pressures on our young people, it's interesting, actually. Funny, something I was working on quite recently. The number of cases of anorexia in young men.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:34
Oh, that was thought to be a girl's problem.
Martin Furber 23:37
Yeah, it's becoming equal, between the two,
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:44
Do they? Are there similar numbers? Like, it's not uncommon with gymnasts to need to keep a low weight in order to perform? Is it that sort of thing? Are these very athletic young men
Martin Furber 23:58
Not necessarily no, these are people who've decided, it seems to have peaked from and since Covid. Seems to in the common cases I've come across in the studies I've been reading. I must make that clear, this isn't patients or clients I've been seeing. In the studies I've been reading about this has been young people who, as we know, with anorexia in particular, it's about the control. And it stems from the Covid times, or the thinking, that's everything is pointing in that direction. And we put it that way. That stems from the Covid era, your eating habits, were one of the few things you did have control over during lock-downs and things. And it's, that seems to be the catalyst for it, for this sudden up-jump where you've got almost parity between young men and young women now. I mean, when I was reading that study, that was the one thing that shocked me that anorexia is the mental health condition with the highest death rate. Yeah, yeah. That surprised me. Because one, a lot of people think of anorexia as something dietary. It's not it's a mental health condition. But also it's the one with the highest death rate percentage-wise.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:13
I should, just to be picky. It's anorexia nervosa, which is anorexia. nervosa means loss of appetite. And yeah, you can you can have that debate.
Martin Furber 25:22
Yeah, same as bulimia nervosa. Yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:28
Well, my dear you, you're gonna have to go off and do things are you're not?
Martin Furber 25:33
I am yeah, I am. I am delivering a course helping people to be mental health first-aiders this evening.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:40
Are you going to be able to tell them how useful hypnosis is, whilst you're there? Or just do it on the Qt in the coffee room?
Martin Furber 25:45
I've got to tell them how wonderful CBT is! And other therapies are available.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:54
Exactly. Not that CBT is bad. And several, CBT providers who also use hypnosis. There are so many ways that you can help someone.
Martin Furber 26:06
I just think hypnotherapy is a kinder therapy.
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:10
Hmm, and very fast, when it's when the client is cooperating when you've got the right fit between client and therapist. It can be incredibly fast.
Martin Furber 26:23
And it just reminded me of a funny thing. One of my clients said to me who'd been having CBT for 18 months for their issue, and then came to see me and I explained how hypnotherapy works. And she said this challenging my thoughts just didn't work for me, because I don't want to think about them. Okay, I get what you mean.
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:48
But she did. She did well, she does.
Martin Furber 26:51
Brilliantly, brilliantly.
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:55
They just have to be able to join the thing. Anyway, my dear, go about your day for the day and I'll see you well. I will undoubtedly see before next week, but we will definitely see you next one.
Martin Furber 27:05
And we will have a guest on next week's episode.
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:07
We will indeed.
Martin Furber 27:08
Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you see you next week. Bye bye.
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:18
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember, this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis. That is for educational purposes only to remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
Martin Furber 27:35
If you found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes. Join us again next week.
