with Sarah Buchanan-Smith

Hosted by

Denise Billen-Mejia www.healandberadiant.com

Martin Furber www.martinfurber.com

Guest : Sarah Buchanan-Smith www.sbuchanansmith.com

Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.

Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.

Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits that it offers.

Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist.

Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor and consulting hypnotist.

Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapist talking.

Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode.

Martin Furber 0:36
Okay, so let's get on with the show indeed, Denise introduce our guest, please.

Denise Billen-Mejia 0:42
I will indeed,  as we both know, this is the incredible Sarah Buchanan-Smith, who does all sorts of things for us. She's been a real help for both Martin and me in early part of our business because she specialises in helping people from various backgrounds, think about what the heck to do online. [How to]actually, present yourself to the world. So thank you so much for agreeing to be with us, Sara. Yeah, Martin and I were both fascinated by the fact that you hadn't told us that you actually had studied hypnosis at one time. So you knew what we were talking about.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 1:19
I knew, I knew ,right from the start, that's why I love working with you both? Absolutely. Yeah,

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 1:24
You're in Edinburgh?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 1:27
Edinburgh. Yes.

Denise Billen-Mejia 1:30
Did you choose that intentionally or was it work-related that got you there?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 1:34
We chose it very intentionally. So husband is born and bred in Edinburgh. We were living in London, we had three little babies and taking them across Clapham Common in the dark, on winter's nights to school was pretty grim. And it was what kind of 2007, 2008 and London was all a bit, you know, getting a bit scary. So, yeah, no, we just decided that we wanted our babies to grow up in Scotland and maybe give them a bit more grounding. So yeah, we brought them up North. And my husband was determined they were ,he wasn't going to have Sassenach kids. So we either had to be, they had to be re-educated into Scots. So yeah, I think the job's done. I think, well, the first two are certainly Scottish. Sandy, my youngest has got another couple of years until he graduates from Scot school. But yeah, yeah. It'll be fine.

Denise Billen-Mejia 2:31
I also I'm fascinated by the fact that your eldest son is now taking his Gap Year and gone to Australia,

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 2:37
Australia, yeah. With his tartan trews.

Denise Billen-Mejia 2:43
Yes, is he on, one of my nieces had a visa go from Britain there and she, she had a year she could work it in anything. But she had to be working. And then she has to...

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 2:54
Yeah, because he's working in a school. And he's actually got like a, you know, a full time job. Essentially, he was given that, there was all sorts of like sponsorship or something to do the job. He has to stay in that job, he can't go off and do bar work, you know. And then the end of the year, he has to come home, which is such a shame. He's got to come home to his mum.

Denise  3:13
But he's loving it?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 3:17
He's having the time of his life, I'd say he's just a transformed. Out and you know, being outside most of the day doing something he absolutely loves. And for him as we you know, being out and that's that school environment that didn't suit him. Ironically, we're saying yeah, ironically, now being a ,you know, an assistant teacher, which is bizarre, but it's just so brilliant to see him. But that compassionate understanding and enthusiasm and understanding of the little ones he's just like, he's like little kind of Pied Piper with his little, you see he teaches, the little really tiny ones, and remedial maths and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, he's having the time of his life.

Martin Furber 3:59
Well, dare I say, I can draw a comparison there, Sarah, okay, in the work that you do, because you teach with compassion, I know this. You teach with compassion. And you're also teaching people things on a subject, they probably know very little about, like search engine optimisation, for example. And you make it easy as ABC, so I think he got it off you.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 4:22
Yeah, I mean, and that's always that's really where I've come from. It's like, that was that was right from the very start I was 100% Determined to teach it like I learned it, you know, because, you know, search engine optimisation, meta descriptions, you know, economical...

Denise Billen-Mejia 4:39
Oh what fun!

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 4:40
Is like the dullest, most kind of inaccessible thing you can possibly study. You know, so it was my absolute I'm so determined to make it as interesting as possible. Okay, and now, I try to make it as accessible, because as we know, and you know, this is, you know, to kind of around the medical profession perhaps, you know, there's a lot of kind of, a God complex and you know, trying to keep things as complicated and as difficult to understand as possible. So you hold on to that knowledge. And I think, you know, from my perspective, it's about sharing everything and that's why I think the internet is incredible for you know, the democratisation of knowledge is just profound. Yeah, so, you know, my mission is to make to make the most complicated stuff as as accessible and fun to learn as possible.

Martin Furber 5:44
It's like you say anything to do with computers or the internet or, you know, computer language anything? Yeah, once you know it, it's relatively easy. It's that fear of learning it yeah, as you say, there's so many mysteries out there so many people or organisations will try and convince you that you will never be able to learn this you must pay.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 6:03
Oh you must come and speak with the experts. Yeah. The sage the SEO sage. Yes, Master. Yeah, come on. And it's really brilliant. I love it. So one of my favourite things is when one of my clients, she was over in Florida, and she'd had this website built for her by some, you know, some bloke in a, you know, black leather swivel chair and kind of is, you know, that kind of tight tight t shirt, you know, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, he'd bamboozled her with all the lingo, told her you couldn't possibly understand, you know, patted her on the head dear. No, no. And it was brilliant. She went back to him and kind, of not ripped him to pieces, but you know, gave him this long list of things that were wrong with her the website he built and he was just like, 'shit'! And he had to go back and fixeit all up for her, and she then had an actual website that was working and so I and that was just through understanding the language, you know, and I love that I love being able to empower people with you know, with well, I suppose yeah, the knowledge and the power of understanding SEO and all that kind of content marketing side of things. Yeah.

Denise Billen-Mejia 7:16
What in your background led you to that? I mean, I know a little bit about your backstory, but not everybody listening does.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 7:23
I think I am just, I am one of the most curious people I think you'll ever meet. I love it. My husband hates me for it. I'll tell you my background In the minute. So take me to a restaurant, and I will order the weirdest funkiest thing on the menu that I've never heard of, just because it sounds interesting. Or, and I say he's like, why don't you just have fish and chips? Why do you have to have, you know, boiled sweet breads that, you know, it's like, and I said, because you don't know you never know what, it might be the most amazing thing in the world, more likely than not, it's going to be disgusting, and I'm going to eat your fish and chips. But you never know. So I come at life with this massive, I think childlike enthusiasm and curiosity. And I always have so you know, I think that's comes from my from growing up all over the world. I was an ex-pat kid, saw all these different amazing cultures. And then, you know, I went into consulting and as my, you know, my background after I left university, because I was so interested in, in business and how it all worked together, I couldn't stand the idea of working in a job for the rest of my life. I love the idea of projects and moving around and getting to fix new things and play in different areas. So that's kind of, you know, and then the other side of things is I love working out how things work. You know, I failed maths GCSE, okay. And then for whatever, it was so boring, really badly taught. And I did my GCSEs in the year because I came back from living in the States. But I qualified as a management accountant, because I was just like, This is so like, it was so interesting. Just seeing how, like, all the bits kind of came together. And I think that's how, that's how I got into SEO, because it was like, it was I was I had been writing a huge, I was in strategic comms. So I was a partner of a strategic comms company. I was setting up the London office COVID came, you know, job over. And I carried on writing but it wasn't, nothing was getting, all the stuff that I was doing from for my clients, my business clients, it wasn't getting found. I say, This is awful, this is really bad. I'm supposed to be you know, management consultant, professional writer. I can pretend to be the CEO of companies and write to the investors and tell them how their business, or how their investments are doing. I can't get anything seen onlin, I said 'shit' this is really bad! So then that's when I learned all about SEO, curiosity, how can I get this to work? How can I get these articles to show up on the first page of Google? How can I get these websites to get more traffic? And I think, I just started exploring and I wasn't scared. I think that's another thing you know, I just like I was just open minded and I think as I say that almost childlike it was like, oh, you know, so what's the URL slug then? You know, and that sounds stupid. Why is it called a slug? You know?

Denise Billen-Mejia 10:32
Vaguely uncomfortable out in the garden. That's what it sounds like. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 10:37
So that's how I've got here is you know is curiosity and what was the other?What did I say? I came out with this thing. I felt very sage. I'm comfortable in confusion. I'm you know, I'm okay happy there. You know, I'm don't get angry,

Denise Billen-Mejia 10:57
But you're not swirling in the confusion? You're just saying...

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 11:01
No, I am swirling. I swirl as much as any, I swirl as much as, I am vortexing around. Like, don't get me wrong, but I'm okay with that. I think that's actually something that's a real skill. I think as that comes when you as you get older, is that comfort and not knowing what the hell is going on? Because we've been through that cycle, how many million times where it ends, and it does become clear. So, and I think, again, I think that's perhaps where I bring that to my teaching, you know, I'm like, It's okay. It's okay not to know what you're doing. It's okay, first of all, you've got me by your side. And you know, and you both know that I've got the prize for the most stupid question, because I want people to feel comfortable in that confusion sitting there and it's going to be okay, we'll come out the other end. It just might be like we're going through the carwash at the moment, but it's fine.

Martin Furber 12:01
I don't know about going through the carwash, Sarah. The metaphor I'd use is you're you're sort of helping them hop on your surfboard, to ride this wave of confusion.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 12:10
Yeah. I love it. It reminds me of again, a bit like my son, you know, being you know, being the lead. I'm at the front of the surfboard. It's okay guys, its okay.

Martin Furber 12:23
So just sort of like going back to hypnotherapy for a moment, then sort of. Now we've had the big reveal that you did train in hypnotherapy. But also, a lot of your clients that you help with our SEO, are hypnotherapists aren't they? And NLP practitioners, and other kinds of practitioners as well. Yeah. What do you, how do you find working with, with therapists, and knowing you've got a background in it yourself?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 12:49
Well, I, one of my favourite things about working for myself is being able to choose who I work with, you know, and I value, creativity, compassion and care. You know, they're all the things I really love about, you know, people. And it, I think, as you know, I think hypnotherapy is one of the most profound things that we have, you know, I genuinely do, I really genuinely do. It's so powerful, so important. And so for my business perspective, if I can help a hypnotherapist get their websites showing up on the first page of Google or their blogs out there showing up and being read, actually being read. And you know, and then that whole sales funnel being kicked off, so they end up taking on new clients. You know, I feel like I'm doing kind of services to the hypnotherapy industry.

Martin Furber 13:48
You absolutely do!

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 13:49
I believe in it, I believe I believe passionately as a tool that we've got so you've...

Denise Billen-Mejia 13:54
and that's it! It's not It's not magic. Yes. it's magic that is explained, it's then science. But it also it isn't us doing something. It's us being trained to know when people can do this for themselves. You teach somebody to it for themselves, which means you're in a constant marketing mode because all your clients graduate.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 14:16
That's true. Damn I've fixed that one! But it's a bit like me, it's like well, they're on first page Google, yeah, fine, so alright bye. But, um, no, that I mean, that's, that's life, isn't it? And no, it's, it's great. Then what's that saying about you knocking? You know, somebody's paying loads of money for a bloke. Do you remember that story about there's a ship and it's broken down and somebody pays him $1,000 And he just bangs on the side of the ship and the guy's going, Oh is that all you're gonna do? And he said you're not paying, you're not paying me for my time. You're paying me for knowing. You know where...

Martin Furber 14:55
For the 10 years it took to train to do this, not the 10 minutes...

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 15:00
So, you're, you're not you're not going to fix the problem. But you're going to, you're going to get to this, you know exactly how to get to the source, that thought, that you need to help them change to change everything else.

Martin Furber 15:12
Yeah, I mean, and this is all it this as well, I always find with in hypnotherapy, because we were talking sort of pre recording about when we have that initial consultation with people. Yeah. And I always find, I always look out for that lightbulb moment with people, because once you explain to them, how these thoughts can occur, how the mind works, and how they can help themselves, generally, you see that light bulb moment in them, and the minute, people realise that they can control something themselves, they feel empowered immediately. And they're already on the road to where they want to be.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 15:46
Yeah. And that's, I mean, again, so. So this is, there's a real parallel there in my business, is, once you tell someone that they can get out the back seat and take the steering wheel, that they can drive, they can get themselves onto page one of Google. they're like, Oh, I didn't, I didn't realise I know, I thought, I had, I thought I was on the backfoot here. I thought, you know, I had to listen and do what I'm told. It's brilliant. And that's, I suppose, that's empowerment, isn't it? You can make that happen.

Martin Furber 16:22
I'll tell you what, we're thick on the metaphors today, Sarah, because I'm thinking you know, you're not selling fish. You're selling a fishing rod and they can do it themselves. Do you care to throw in a metaphor in today Denise?

Denise Billen-Mejia 16:35
We've probably had quite sufficient. We had enough already. Definitely. Did you take the hypnotherapy training that you did out of curiosity?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 16:48
Yeah, no, of course. I mean,

Denise Billen-Mejia 16:49
You know, it wasn't you weren't expecting to launch a hypnotherapy practice. You just wanted to know what it was.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 16:55
You know, I'd been I'm just genuinely really interested in it, you know, and I'd done my NLP training. And there was quite a bit you know, there was a lot of people did NLP training and hypnotherapy training and, uh, but I just loved it. It's just so fascinating, so powerful. You know? Yeah. And I think the curiosity around hypnotherapy for me was, you know, seeing the, you know, the stage hypnotherapists and all that kind of, and I couldn't, I was really curious to see how it could be something other than stage hypnotherapy. You know, and I wanted to understand how, why it was, and that's why I wanted to do the training to understand, and then once I done the training, I was just like, Oh, my God, you know, this is insane. That's brilliant.

Martin Furber 17:41
Yeah, completely different. Completely different. So you studied NLP as well?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 17:46
Yeah. Yeah. So I went, did Master. Yeah, up to Master Practitioner as well. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's been something that in I studied, started studying that again, not necessarily because I wanted to be an NLP practitioner. But it was, I'd got really bad postnatal depression, after I had my second child. And I just, I, you know, I went to the doctor's and I was given a literally, I was in there for, I think, five minutes, I was given a packet of antidepressants and, you know, sent on my merry way. I remember I went to the coffee shop, with this prescription in my hand, and I just looked at that, and thought, I don't want to do this. And now there's nothing wrong with antidepressants at all. You know, there's absolutely, absolutely 100% But I didn't need them. I wanted, I needed someone to talk to me, I needed help. I needed conversations, and I needed connections and all that kind of stuff. I didn't need to be putting pills down my throat. So I started exploring; this is really like that whole exploration of the mind and thinking thoughts. And yeah, I really managed to manage, through learning about NLP, basically, using myself as a test case got myself out of that depression. Yeah, yeah.

Denise Billen-Mejia 19:02
But again, we're not dissing antidepressants, they can be a lifesaver.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 19:08
And they do the most incredible things. When they're used in the right context, you know, and there's, so there are, but you know, there are so there are, a lot of things that can either complement them. Yeah. Or, you know, or, you know, having longer conversations around people's real needs. I think is important too.

Martin Furber 19:28
I mean, this is it. You've used, the word we use there as well, complement. Hypnotherapy psychotherapy can really complement.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 19:39
Yeah, yeah.

Martin Furber 19:40
You know, somebody who's on antidepressants and what have you. I think, you know, Denise and I both agree that they can be great, you know, they can be lifesavers.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 19:50
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 100% Yeah, they're essential. You know, just yeah, I mean, I say learning NLP was something that, that I found very empowering and brought me out of that hole.

Martin Furber 20:04
Yeah, again, a lot of stuff you learn when you when you learn NLP is about the thought processes in our mind and how we can take control of them. So again, it's that taking control.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 20:15
As you were saying, you know just getting myself, really like getting, I always describe it as getting myself off the back foot, off my back foot, and that was really important to me. It was just like standing on my own two feet again, like stand tall, and that was okay. It was like yeah, okay. And then you know, my parents both died and it was really really horrible, difficult. Again, you know, bang you know, NLP comes out you know, it's really amazing skill to have in your in your back pocket.

Martin Furber 20:43
Yeah, I find a lot of people like NLP, who say, oh I'd never have hypnotherapy I go for NLP. Well, there ain't a lot of difference between the two!

Denise Billen-Mejia 20:56
It's about again, it's interesting what the general public has, has decided it means. Hypnosis, it's the stuff we see on TV and movies, with swinging watches.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 21:09
Yeah, and it's interesting because, it's really interesting you know, and it's still there, it's funny even with, what's his name? Paul McKenna and I think he turned from stage to proper hypnotherapy, and I still don't think it's been quite you know, quite accepted as a you know, as the powerful tool it can be

Martin Furber 21:36
Yeah, well that's it, for as long as there are stage hypnotists using it for entertainment, there will always be that association between the two, and yet as you know yourself now they are quite far removed.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 21:47
I think it's just so unique that it can have both sides to it. I mean, there's not, you don't se kind of stage Surgery d you?

Denise Billen-Mejia 21:56
There used to be. people used to come and watch it at the theatre...

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 21:58
Exactly yeah, they did as well. Yeah, exactly. But

Martin Furber 22:01
Yeah, there was that stage autopsy on Channel Four a couple years ago.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 22:04
Yeah. Yeah, this no, this this line is not working the argument's not working.

Denise Billen-Mejia 22:09
But the thing that is really nice is that some people in the medical profession know about it, and gradually more people will know about it. Martin's other, one of his other little branches of people who come to see him, he works alongside at a regular psychiatry clinic.

Martin Furber 22:33
In a private therapy clinic where they've got nine consultant psychiatrists, they do in house referrals to me for hypnotherapy. Generally, for people who have, one have sort of like discussed it, obviously, with the psychiatrists, but where often CBT hasn't been a good fit for somebody, then they're willing to try hypnotherapy.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 22:54
I think this is so brilliant. And I think, you know, this is the start. This is this is where it's starting now. Isn't it nice to have psychiatrist referring to hypnotherapist is, of course, of course you would. You know, and it's and that you know, and speaking to Denise and seeing the work that she's doing with doctors and all that good stuff. It's, it's really, I think, starting to gain momentum and I think that's what's needed to make that switch to make it you know, a lot more mainstream, you know, like you just yeah, you know, hypnotherapy becomes something that you're prescribed.

Denise Billen-Mejia 23:32
I wish we could be called hypnosis technicians. Yeah, I wish that people would just, it's not we're not in competition with other forms of therapy at all.

Martin Furber 23:43
It complements the complementary therapies that are out there. Especially when, you know, when people actually realise going for hypnotherapy is not a matter of just going there straightaway, and the you know, the hypnotist, putting you into a state of hypnosis, the pre-talk is absolutely vital. You know, and that's when a lot of the work is done. A lot of the exploration is done, a lot of the, you know, getting to know the client and empowering the clients in that part of the session. And then yes, you have the hypnosis.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 24:22
See, that's why I think the word hypnotherapy is a good one. There is that therapy element to it. It's not just hypnosis as such.

Denise Billen-Mejia 24:33
Yeah, that's the problem here. More and more states, the psychotherapy unions or whatever they object to us calling ourselves Hypnotherapists. So officially I'm a consulting hypnotist because there are some states where I cannot be, and obviously the internet goes everywhere. Yeah, and it's so silly. You know you have a respiratory therapist. You have x ray technicians. You know, we're not in competition.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 25:06
It's a well, it's just classic classic human beings, isn't it? Oh, no, you know, like, lack mentality.

Martin Furber 25:13
Yeah. So, tell me then Sarah, because I'm gonna keep chiselling away with it. Now that I know that you're a therapist, how did you feel the first time you sent somebody in to hypnosis, as a traineee?

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 25:26
I didn't believe I'd done it. You know, because I was expected them to be... Well, again, you know, you'd expect them to be slumped on the chair, you know, and it was just like, it was, it was, um, it was not, underwhelming is not the word. It was. It was very, I felt it was a for me, it was a very calm, kind of, I felt I knew when they, they'd gone, because there was this peace that came over them. And it was like, and, then the more times I did it, it was like, that was what I learned to, to understand was the point at which we were ready to start. And depending on the person, obviously you think, you know, it does, it does take different, you know, lengths of time to go to that point. Yeah, absolutely.

Denise Billen-Mejia 26:23
Until you've trained in hypnosis, and you've been hypnotised by students. So often they suggest, would you like to be in hypnosis? Yes, please. Clunk. It's so fast, when you've done it so many times.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 26:33
But I think, and that goes back to what we say before though, the trust. You know, like that, you know, how important it is to still have that initial conversation, to establish the trust first because, again, if you don't establish that trust upfront, my experience was then that took a lot longer to you know, for someone to allow themselves. I don't know why I always call it go-under because I it to me. Yeah, but it's like, for me it was, but it is almost like a slipping to slipping under the water. It's like it's, that works for me as an image. It might not for lots of other people, but it was just that there's, you know, submitting to it, you know, that whole kind of, you know, but trust is a huge element of that.

Martin Furber 27:25
Yeah, absolutely. is absolutely. Talking of trust, Sarah. Okay. Denise and I will both shout this from the rooftops your clients can absolutely trust you. So if somebody's interested in SEO, please explain a little bit to them about it and how they can get in touch with you because believe it or not, we're almost at the end of the episode.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 27:45
Oh, God, I love talking to you two!

Denise Billen-Mejia 27:46
The information will be in the show notes. 

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 27:50
So you know, I very much work with, with people who are SEO curious, who you know, who, who've heard of it, who know, they ought to be doing something about it, but really don't have any, they've got haven't got the first clue where to start. You know, they've maybe had a stab around, and they've backed out quickly, because they think, Oh, my God, it's like, whoa. All the acronyms and all the nonsense and pressing funky buttons on Google Analytics and go, Oh, my God, I'm gonna break my website. So what I do is, you know, I got, you know, a very, very structured approach. Now, this is where we start, this is what you do next, it's step by step. Hand holding all the way through basically with with, you know, the the ultimate goal is to get the people I work with, to optimise their websites to optimise their content so that they start showing up on the first page of Google. And there's this stat I love 97.6% of people have websites that aren't optimised. So you know, it's 96.7% of pages don't show up on the internet. No, so I can help you get yourself out there. Get yourself showing up on the first page of Google because actually, there isn't a huge amount of competition when you think about it. If only two point whatever or 3% of people actually optimising them.

Martin Furber 27:50
That's really interesting Sarah. So would it be fair to say that, okay, if somebody can write a letter in Word and save it, you can teach them how to SEO, their web.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 29:29
100%, I can show them how to get that document showing up on the first page of Google because again, quick, geeky stat, only less than 1% of people ever look at anything on page two or beyond, right, it has to be on page one or else you will not get seen.

Denise Billen-Mejia 29:49
And you're already pushed down the page because of the adverts.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 29:52
Exactly. So you know, write yourself a Word document. Come and talk to me. I'll show you how to structure it. Set it all up on your website so that it's optimised and it will start showing up on page one and actually get seen. All that blood sweat and tears is actually rewarded,

Denise Billen-Mejia 30:08
It's also one of the most important things about understanding what it is you're asking your website to do, is if you want to have somebody else do stuff for you, you have to know whether what you're asking them to do is doable. Of course. And frankly, with some people, if you're being taken for an idiot.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 30:31
You know, you're intimidated, you don't know the language, some bloke comes along and says, Oh, yeah, it's gonna cost you 800 quid and you go, Okay, you don't have any idea whether you've done, they've actually done the work for you. And you 99% of the time, you're massively underwhelmed by the results. Going back to our empowerment talk, if you can do it, if you know how to do that. You save yourself tonnes of money. And you know what to do if you ever do want to, you know, start outsourcing it to people.

Martin Furber 31:03
You can check up on them, see if they're doing it right.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 31:07
I mean, you could be checking up you know, or you're just gonna...

Denise Billen-Mejia 31:09
You can have a conversation between equals.

Sarah Buchanan-Smith 31:12
Exactly. Conversation of equals. Yeah, absolutely.

Martin Furber 31:15
Brilliant. Thank you, Sarah, so much for coming on. Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah. Brilliant.

Denise Billen-Mejia 31:21
Oh, we both missed you very much. It's one of the downsides of having a business that works once you've got a website that works.

Denise Billen-Mejia 31:38
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember, this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only to remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.

Martin Furber 31:54
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