Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor and consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapist talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:36
Here we go again Denise, we're almost at the end of our series, almost at the end of the series, what's been happening this week, what's in the news?
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:44
Lots of things, I've getting a lot more clients, which is nice. I'm hoping that it's because I've been. Yeah, I've started the blog, and I'm sorry to be a bit more visible. I always pop up very high on the searches, when they look for the near me kind of those searches. I'm not quite sure how otherwise, but my analytics are looking good, so there's hope at the end of the tunnel. And I really think I'm onto something. The Royal Society of Medicine is doing a course next Monday, it's an all day conference, and anybody can go, I might cost you a little bit more if you're a member of the society. But it's an all day in person and virtual event, conference about hypnosis, the thing are almost got forgotten by medicine.
Martin Furber 1:36
Really?
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:37
I can't remember the exact title though. But yeah, I think this is, it's always been cycles and cycles and cycles. It was really big in the late 1800s. And then it went away and came back and it went away again. And it's really such a shame we have such I guess it's a human fault. We just shiny new object. This is working really well. But maybe this will work better. This is working really well. But this might have Yeah, yeah.
Martin Furber 2:05
Or, what, and it depends on whether it's something new or not. I mean, maybe they regard hypnosis as something old fashioned and had it's day.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:16
Well, that's what I mean. It's like, if it's still working, why would you throw it away? By all means add other things.
Martin Furber 2:22
Yeah. Yeah, or reinvent it. Like, you know, as we've talked before, sort of NLP is hypnosis reinvented, I say. But also, it's like different kinds of, I'll give you an example at the moment in Lancashire, NHS and psychological therapies have just been rebranded talking therapies. And they're doing a big push on that. Shame, it's still you're only limited to six sessions. But no, it's about the understanding and these thoughts about hypnosis, and I was listening to something on radio two the other day, not related to hypnosis, in one sense, because we're talking about sleep paralysis, okay. But the the technical term for it is hypnagogic or hypnopompic. hallucinations. Because it includes...
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:15
Explain what those two things mean.
Martin Furber 3:19
Okay, the hypnagogic hallucinations occur as you're falling asleep entering REM sleep. Okay, that dreamy part of the thing. And while hypnopompic hallucinations happen as you're waking up, usually exiting in the REM sleep. It just got me thinking, okay. Because there's always the confusion is is hypnosis sleep? No, you're not asleep and yet it's derived from the Greek word hypnosis, which means sleep. And that's where we start to confuse people. Yeah, we've got all these misinterpretations. And then you've got this Hypno word sort of tied on to these things, and they're relating to when people falling asleep or waking up and the hallucinations they experienced now, hallucinations..
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:05
That's a very loaded word. That sounds terrifying.
Martin Furber 4:08
Huh? hallucinations?
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:10
Yeah,
Martin Furber 4:11
yeah, yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:12
Anyway, it might be, you know, pink elephants at the end of the bed, could be whatever, but it doesn't have to be anything really terrifying.
Martin Furber 4:19
But, yeah, but hallucinations are like sort of one way of describing when we dream when we visualise things. And yet when we enter hypnosis, they're not I wouldn't describe it as hallucinations, would you?
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:34
No, no. Because you you can control them. You absolutely can choose to wake up from it. Yeah. It's so difficult to explain to people that you don't come and go. And then you're wrong.
Martin Furber 4:48
But it's controlled dreaming isn't it? a guided visualisation because when we dream, whilst we're asleep. We don't necessarily have any control over it, do we? That's why we can wake up from a nightmare. When we've been dreaming about things we didn't particularly enjoy. And we can wake up a bit stressed or having palpitations or whatever.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:08
Because you don't remember the exact imagery that you were watching, you can feel just uncomfortable, and don't know why.
Martin Furber 5:15
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's important to make that differentiation between hypnosis and actual dreaming when we're asleep because I often say to people, hypnosis sort of replicates the REM stage of our sleep. The stage of our sleep when we do most of our dreaming. And again, that could infer that somebody isn't gonna have control of what they visualised then couldn't it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:41
No, it's guided.
Martin Furber 5:42
It's guided, yeah, we have to reinforce that point, though, sometimes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:50
So this was a woman who is a psychologist?
Martin Furber 5:53
No, she's a doctor a medical doctor, she's on radio two Dr. Rosemary. Please forgive me that I don't remember her surname. And she's on there every Monday talking about anything from you know, haemorrhoids to hysteria. She totally covers all subjects. And it was just this particular week as soon as I heard the words hypnagogic and hypnopompic. My ears pricked up.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:16
Okay, maybe we can invite her to come on the podcast.
Martin Furber 6:20
Yeah, I'd love her to come on the podcast. She's, she's on the radio, as I say she covers all medical issues. Absolutely all medical issues.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:27
Has she ever discussed hypnosis?
Martin Furber 6:29
Not that I can recall as I say, my ears pricked up when I heard the hypno, and I thought she was talking about hypnosis, but no, she didn't. So as I say, I just find it strange that that word is used to describe hallucinations is to describe as we're falling asleep, or as we're waking up.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:54
It's, I don't know, I don't want them to rebrand. Lots of people have been rebranding things that it's always Oh, this isn't hypnosis. This is such and such. Oh, come on. It's a natural phenomenon. You don't have to teach people to be hypnotised. You may need some help learning how to bring it on, but it will happen.
Martin Furber 7:17
Yeah, the thing is, I always say this to people, people say what's it like to be hypnotised? So it's very subjective. I think so.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:25
I tell people, it feels like when when you're not quite asleep, and somebody says, are you awake? And you think, am I? I don't know, could be either way.
Martin Furber 7:25
I like to use the analogy of if you've ever sat there daydreaming with you, with your chin, on your elbow on your on your hand with your elbow on the windowsill or something, just daydreaming out the window really getting absorbed in the moment.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:51
We try not to do that to clients. We like them to have a nice gentle in and out.
Martin Furber 7:57
Yeah, I mean, most people describe it have a feeling of being deeply relaxed. You know, your breathing slows down, doesn't it? Your muscles become loose. You've seen...
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:08
All the little tiny muscles relax?
Martin Furber 8:11
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But then it's the fact that the attention becomes focused. Whereas again, when we think of relaxation, we perhaps think of not focusing on anything particularly. With hypnosis, that attention becomes focused, doesn't it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:26
But that's why it's because it's guided, your explaining topeople where it would be useful to go now. And they don't have to follow you if they don't want to, but it's silly to go to a hypnotist and they're not do what they're suggesting.
Martin Furber 8:39
Yeah, like some people describe the feeling of detachment from the physical body though.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:46
Yeah. In some in some techniques, you actually ask people to do that. Now fly high above and watch yourself as a third party. Yeah, and and then you integrate. In fact, I remember doing, yesterday was my last client of the day.
Martin Furber 9:06
Yeah. Yeah. You know, again, it's our suggestions that might trigger the vivid mental images, but the client is still in control aren't they.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:21
Because the nice thing is, if you're bringing somebody into hypnosis, you're very unlikely to ask them to imagine something, it will be uncomfortable for them. You ask them usually to look for something that you know, the last time you remember being really comfortable, really confident. The world's your oyster moment. Because you want people to have, to know, that they can remember feeling that way.
Martin Furber 9:45
Yeah, we want them to remember feeling that way but they don't necessarily remember the session. What's the best example you can think of with a client of time distortion when, where they've lost sense of time in a session?
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:59
Oh, it's usually they tell me that, is it really that much time's gone? Yes, it has. Yeah.
Martin Furber 10:04
Yeah. I've heard that so many times where somebody's sort of gone into transit and they've come out and then well, was that a? I've said, yeah, how long do you think that wasn't until five minutes? And it's like, Well, actually half an hour. Yeah. Because they remember going in in the room or coming out, immediately remember the bit in the middle, so they think nothing happened.
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:25
But even those who don't remember could actually spit back at you verbatim, what you had said to them. And there are people that do that, but they've still been hypnotised. They still don't really have a good sense of how long it took, huh? Just this isn't a con, it's just, uh, you know.
Martin Furber 10:46
I don't think now thinking back over my clients. And, you know, I'm quite pleased to say I've got a very healthy client list now. Thinking back, I can't remember any two that describe everything exactly the same way. Or even nearly the same way. Everybody's experience of hypnosis is unique, isn't it? I find.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:07
Yeah. And they don't have to worry about which one they're feeling. It's not that one's better than the other. You have every single thing, that doesn't matter.
Martin Furber 11:17
I mean, I always find that the important thing to get across to people is it's a collaborative process, that they are involved and they need to be involved. It's not something we do to them.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:29
Yeah, I hear now, the big difference. physical difference in your and my practice is that I see people every two weeks, and you see them every week. For example, I mean, sometimes there are gaps or vacations to be allowed for and things. But I do that because I think it's between the seventh the 10th day that most people get the best effect. It takes a while. It's like sometimes you can come around from a nice little session about how you're not going to smoke and you're not smoking from then on him. But really the the number of times your mind has rehearsed what we're talking around the seventh and 10th day for the rest. So I asked people to make an appointment every two weeks, because for every 10 days people go bonkers trying to figure out which they do, every other Wednesday. That's the time you see me.
Martin Furber 12:17
Yeah, I was just gonna say besides which if somebody only has a Wednesday afternoon available every 10 days isn't going to work is it?Because it means they're not available on Friday.
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:26
What, do you do choose a week because you see a different effect that way or just this? It's not unusual to find hypnosis, hypnotists to see people weekly, or any other kind of therapy.
Martin Furber 12:41
Yeah, it's really strange,this one Denise, because I've got about three clients who in the last few weeks for reasons that they felt for themselves that they've moved down to fortnightly. And these are even clients who are on a set number of sessions. So it's not a question of cutting down on the sessions, on the economics. And they've said is it okay to see me fortnightly? And on two of those occasions, it's because the first time they were unable to see me for a week, and yet they felt better when they had a fortnight in between. Yeah, and it's something I'm actually going to give some thought to. Maybe, you know, that given that fortnight is the better option. Certainly with those particular clients, that's working best for them and at the end of the day, that's what it's about isn't it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:25
Yeah, exactly.
Martin Furber 13:26
If they say to themselves, this will work better if I see him fortnightly then it will work better.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:34
It might give you a little bit of space too.
Martin Furber 13:37
Yeah, true. True Yeah, cuz it's been busy busy busy.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:41
Well it's because you see some people physically, I just come into my home office and get online. And but I'm also getting emails but I think I'll forget that. Distractions um, yeah, so I'm comfortable with my every two weeks I do do weekly if I'm if we're dealing with weight. But that's not a hypnosis session. You just do, it's just checking in.
Martin Furber 14:11
Yet with weight. That's the one I've always spaced out. It's six sessions, but generally over between eight and 10 weeks.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:19
Yeah, I'd say I do 12 weeks. But every week, not even necessarily, but just to check in. And they're free to stretch that as long as they need to. Because obviously it doesn't matter how phenomenal you are as a hypnotist or how incredibly cooperative the patient is, the client is. It doesn't fall off right away and you wouldn't want it to.
Martin Furber 14:41
No, no, because otherwise, if he falls off straightaway, we all know what's gonna happen. They're gonna they're gonna revert back you got to change what you do. You got to change your default position, what you naturally turn to when you were, when you want to deal with whatever it is you're dealing with, by eating food.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:04
Yes, my my expression eating your emotions, which is not mine alone.
Martin Furber 15:11
No it's mine now, because I pinched it off you.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:13
Yeah, but I like to see I heard myself saying yours you know, eat what you want when you want.
Martin Furber 15:18
But what you want can change!
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:23
Though again we've got, we've gone, sort of started with talking about radio shows. Do you think it's just that hypnosis is becoming more visible again? It's difficult to know because I'm immersed in hypnosis. So my a lot of my emails come so you don't really read it.
Martin Furber 15:19
Yeah, but it's the same with me though, because most of the things I do on my computer are related to hypnosis whether I'm writing an article whether I'm updating my website, whether I'm speaking to a client, so naturally as Google follows you around, all the things they present, are connected with hypnosis and hypnotherapy. So I don't know. Obviously, I see lots and lots of it, whether somebody else who just turns their computer on and has never searched that word before will see as much I don't know. I think generally speaking over here, there seems to be more talk of it. If I look down through things like LinkedIn, or I'm even, if I'm listening to somebody else's podcast about health and well being and that kind of thing. Hypnotherapy does seem to be getting a mention, whereas it wouldn't have done in the past. Certainly not 10 years ago, for sure it wouldn't have done. Whereas now.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:19
Mindset has been around for a while.
Martin Furber 15:19
Yeah, mindset, which is part of it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, there seems to be a general awareness. I mean, as we know, as we've said,on this show, many times, if you've read the NHS website over here, you'll see hypnosis recommended for quite a few things. Just that the NHS won't pay for it yet.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:19
Must be positive, not there yet.
Martin Furber 15:19
So yeah. And then you hear it talks about? Yeah, I'm thinking about now you hear it talks about on some programmes, you see it mentioned in other places usually eats, again, though, it's when somebody perhaps who is reasonably well known, like a sports personality, suddenly says, you know, and when they ask them, how do they prepare, I review this, how did they do that? And they say, Oh, I have a Hypnotherapist. But then, then you've got other people who say, I'm just thinking about conversations. Now I was watching what was it a couple years ago, I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. And the horrible tasks to do in the jungle, you know, chasing, or whatever. And I can remember one of the contestants didn't know it was when they were doing this task. They were trying to take themselves mentally out of it. They say, Think happy place, think happy place, think happy place. And then afterwards, somebody was saying to them, what was that about? And they said, Well, that was my Hypnotherapist. And then I think of a another well known footballer who had the rubber band on his arm because his therapist and that's been used without hypnosis being mentioned at all. It's a form of hypnosis isn't accepted hugely in NLP is used in hypnosis. And even somebody who isn't a hypnotherapist, there may be some other kinds of talking therapists will set anchors for people help people to set up without referring to hypnotherapy.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:19
But it is I mean, waving the hypnotherapy flag, it's a form of hypnotherapy. And we don't really care what it's called, so long as people are getting help. Yeah, as long as it's working for them.
Martin Furber 15:19
Yes. What are the kinds of anchors of use that for people and usually the easiest thing if it depending on what the problem is.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:19
The usual thing is just to pinch your fingers together to to get immediately to that. Okay, but once it's set enough, I usually have them practice that at least three times a day, okay? So until it's really firmly
Martin Furber 15:19
Okay, so for the benefits of somebody who may have just stumbled across his by complete accident, and he's completely unfamiliar with the term anchor, let's explain it. Go ahead, go oh, okay, it's about association we can, let's use this as an example. You can be hypnotised to,
Martin Furber 19:37
every time you do this movement, for example, to relate that to connect that within you to a feeling to a thought to a situation. So for example, if you get particularly nervous before you undertake something, whatever that activity may be, your hypnotherapist can set an anchor that every time you do that, you will do Have all the other kinds of, and it needs to be something that you can do without interrupting physically what you're doing, where people are anxiety of crossing over bridges, you don't have letting go of the steering wheel to something else. So nobody can ask me something. Exactly, exactly, which is why it's such a common one to use or this if you don't need your steering wheel hands, just the end of a tapping thing, which I think is really more of an anchor.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:32
It helps people to just reach that review, if you ever tried explaining meditation to people, if they don't meditate regularly. Okay? Because that's, that's the thing. It's, it's not the act of meditating that yeah, so some people consider it akin to prayer. So the purpose of that, but it's really because you want to get to the point where you're calm and wait, where you just You're, you're not flustered by things you cope. And so you can with an anchor take people to that memory of how that feels. And again, your brain doesn't know the difference between real and imaginary. Yeah.
Martin Furber 21:12
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Whenever I say that to somebody, oh, you can't tell the difference between imagination and reality. Your mind can't tell the difference. They look at me like, your intellect can but you're gonna have your brain. Yeah. Yeah, well, as I say, I always use the analogy of when you're watching a horror film or something, or you totally engrossed in something, and somebody bangs on the door, and you jump out of your skin. That kind of thing. So yeah, as you know, we're coming towards the end of our fifth season, Denise, I think this will be a good opportunity to ask people what they'd like us to include in the next series, any particular subjects, they'd like us to talk about their Hypno related or Hypno adjacent, please put them in the comments. We'd love to hear from you. And we're going to be featuring some more guests on the next series, which will be starting later in the year. But it's like, again, explaining our anchor, then maybe some of our viewers don't know what an anchor is. But if we don't hear back from them, we don't know do it. Would you like us to explore explain more technical terms? Would you like us to talk more about what happens when you eat hypnosis or more about how it works? Let us know.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:21
That's what I say. Or if you have been hypnotised and you want to come and talk about what your experience was, we'd be happy to host you. But it's also because I do a lot of medical stuff. I don't usually ask people to out themselves. It can be entirely private, which is why I love working online. Nobody. Nobody needs to know that you're seeing a hypnotist last year. Well, I call it was we're all bound by the same confidentiality rules. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. I am. I am over here. And I know you are over there. Everything's absolutely confidential. Yeah, absolutely. I think we need to wrap this episode up, Denise because we've got our guests on the next one, and she'll be on finally, finally with her new book, Beverly Densham.
Martin Furber 23:06
Coming back to join us to round off the series with Bev which will be lovely. So I will catch you on the next one.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:11
All right, yeah.
Martin Furber 23:12
Thank you. Bye.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:21
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember, this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only. So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one. If
Martin Furber 23:38
you found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes. Join us again next week.
