Speaker 1 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor and consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapists talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:38
Okay, so let's get on with the episode. Denise. We have a guest with us this week. Are you going to introduce her?
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:46
I'm going to introduce the Satomi Shoji, who is from Japan and lives in Manhattan. And she was in training right behind me should bake the year. You're behind me. So we crossed over in some classes. And she works as a hypnotist and full time mother, in Manhattan, Hi satomi thank you so much for joining us.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 1:08
Hi Denise, thank you so much having me here.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:13
How do you feel your hypnosis practice is going along? Because you've been graduated now, about four years?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 1:21
Yes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:22
And I know that you took a little break to do some additional studying. So would you like to talk about that first?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 1:28
Absolutely. Yes. So last year, I got certified as a binge eating recovery coach. And for these years after the graduation of hypnotherapy school, I was always seeking what is my niche. And as somebody who recovered from 18 years of eating disorder, severe bulimia, anorexia, you name it, I've experienced all and I decided to become a binge eating coach, because I know how hard it is to recover from it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:06
Okay. When did you yourself recover?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 2:11
I, I would say I recovered in 2016. Yeah. Okay.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:18
Did you use a therapist to do it? Or was it a do it yourself programme?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 2:25
I, I've always had a therapist, since I came here in 2011.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:33
Okay, oh, that's longer than I thought. Okay.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 2:37
Yes, I always had a therapist. But if there's a gap, there is a gap between what therapists can help. But they're helpful for recovering trauma, trauma or different things to cope with emotional issues. But they are not really trained to how to restore the satiety clues, and hunger clues and that stuff, and how to do the structured eating. So for me, it was very difficult, but like many others do, I truly believe that if I clear my trauma enough, if I get better emotionally, I really believe that I get better automatically from binge eating disorder.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:30
It was it was your response to the trauma?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 3:33
Yes, it wasn't the case. The truth is, we can we can recover. We can get better without recovering from the all the emotional stress or trauma. Because it's a lot of the issues are coming from body and habits. Yeah.
Speaker 1 3:53
So which do you think you do more now? Is eating disorders, really your specialty within hypnosis? Or what what kind of clients do you actively seek out?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 4:08
I'm seeking, my clients tend to be a binge eating clients.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:13
Okay.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 4:14
Anybody who have a issue with eating, like who lost the control over eating? Yeah,
Speaker 1 4:24
Do you see people who have a lot of weight loss or need to lose a lot of weight, feel that they need to lose a lot of weight, or is it sort of a 30 pound range? What's the what are your parameters for?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 4:37
I don't work for the weight loss, but it comes with a result, it comes as a result of because we teach the habit and normalise it and eventually, like in month or year after they just find their stable weight and then they stick to that. Because it's a habitual thing, right? And hypnosis is really good for habit. Creating habit.
Martin Furber 5:07
Yeah, absolutely. And this makes so much sense to me Satomi. This is really resonating with me. You mentioned something about satiety and feelings. And I was talking with Denise about this recently, how to change somebody's impression, somebody's interpretation of those feelings of hunger. Okay, and getting them to regard those feelings as weight loss. To prevent them. Yeah. So they look forward to getting those feelings rather than, as, you may well know, when we get those hunger feelings, even though we're not actually hungry, because we've just eaten the evening meal, but we carry on feeding and feeding, because it makes that feeling go away. We were talking about changing that feeling. So I'm really interested in this because something else you've said about you changing their entire habits, the weight loss just follows on automatically, which of course it will do. So I'm just interested to know how you incorporate the hypnosis aspect into the treatment you give people.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 6:15
Yes, so there is a gap that the clinicians do, such as doctors treat physical symptoms, right. Like, they restore they, the physical symptoms, like underweight or overweight, right. And the therapist can remove the anxiety or like give the tools to coping with the stress or trauma, right. But there I found it, there is a gap between them. How to incorporate small habits, changing their eating habit. And here's the binge eating coach coming in. And even the binge eating coach themselves has a gap that we need to fill for the patient, or the client to be able to continue that work sustainably. Right. And that comes that's where the hypnotist comes in. So I'm combining the work of hypnosis, and binge eating coach, because the hypnosis part can really manage the creation of a good habit such as, like, the structured eating, or how to catch when we're getting off track, which is like automatic. It helps how to catch ourselves, and then get back to the track and make that kind of habit more attractive, more easier, and just easy to do. But otherwise, that is not most attractive, easiest, fastest to fix. When we have stress,right, the fastest and quickest, the easiest solution is usually just chocolate on the face, right? And drinking something, beer or something just to binge eat.
Speaker 1 8:17
Right, people tend to forget how many calories there are an alcoholic drinks
Satomi Shoji-Grun 8:21
Yeah, but it's just the easiest way to deal with the emotion. So we are just rewiring the habit, how to make it attractive, and how to reward ourselves. So make it really sustainable.
Speaker 1 8:42
So I'm gonna ask you a question as if I am a potential client. And that is how long does it take?
Unknown Speaker 8:49
To get better?
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:50
Yeah,
Satomi Shoji-Grun 8:51
To stop binge eating?
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:53
Yes, to know that you're on the right track. Because if you've got 100 pounds to lose, it's not going to happen in three weeks. So how long is it before they realise for most clients, assuming that they're following the pattern or not going to birthday parties every weekend. How long does it takes usually, for somebody to know they're on the right path and they can continue.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 9:18
It really depends on the situation and the person to person. But it usually less than nine weeks to get realised and that your urge is subsiding. Because within nine weeks that a lot of clients realise even before nine weeks passes, like in my case, I've binged severely for 18 years, right. So I was so hopeless and desperate. I thought there's no method in this world to save us. But in my case, I realised something is different after four three, four weeks, because I had a significant decrease of my urge to binge. Yeah, after I started structured eating three meals and three snacks.
Martin Furber 10:15
Okay.
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:17
So you do any of your clients come to you wanting to do intermittent fasting, which is the latest, I will call it a fad. But I do do that respectfully, because a lot of people will go 12 hours without eating or 15 even. Do you have any clients who want to do it that way? Or do you think that the three full meals and three?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 10:43
No, I totally understand what you're saying. Yes, there are many clients who want to do the intermittent fasting. According to the research, the intermittent fastings are more suitable for men, because they have more stable metabolism. They don't have a cyclical nature in there. They probably do but much smaller. But not significant as women experience.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:16
Certainly not on a monthly basis. Now at what, just, do you know if there's been any research to see if postmenopausal women are also at a disadvantage to men or whether it changes back?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 11:32
Sorry can you repeat the question?
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:34
Most menopausal, women who have gone through the change of life, do they then respond in the same way that older men would? Or or are all women still, better off, sticking with, not with that prime? That's a very convoluted, weird way of asking a question!
Satomi Shoji-Grun 11:56
It's a very good question. Because there are people who've been doing even 40 years, but 30-40 years, and way after post menopausal time, and these people can recover as well. And the methodology applies that the structured eating applies to them as well. Yes. And I am really impressed that my colleagues are recovered, like after 30-40 years, and they thought that there's no way out. But it looks yeah, because they believed it to be really psychological. But it's really about reconditioning the body. Yeah. Yeah.
Martin Furber 12:41
Everything you're saying Satomi, absolutely resonating with me. And I imagine will resonate with anybody who is troubled by disordered eating, particularly binge eating, okay. And yet somebody who's never engaged in that will not understand this at all, they won't understand that these urges you get are as strong as the urges a cocaine addict may get towards getting their drug, getting their fix to take that physical pain away, that you need to eat something and then you feel emotionally better.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:16
But not for very long,
Martin Furber 13:17
Not for very for long, and then you have to eat again. Yeah, exactly the same as taking some kind of intoxicating drugs, same kind of thing. And everything you're saying about forming structured eating habits is how I evolved my eating habits as it were, in my sort of recovery from being a hugely, grossly, overweight person, because it was down to binge eating, and I was binge eating every evening, and to hell with the consequences because my life was very, very stressful at the time.
Speaker 1 13:52
I like your substitute for that evening snack.
Martin Furber 13:55
Yeah, I eat a whole pineapple every night now. After I've had my dinner, every single night, I have a whole pineapple because they're actually really low in calories, and you get that sugar hit off them, which I still crave. And they really fill you up as well. Of course, it's all fluid. Yeah, so that was one of my rituals, that's one of my snacks a day. One of my rituals is. So I suppose it's ordered, isn't it? I eat a whole pineapple in the evening after dinner.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:25
But that's part of a whole ritual. You have to peel with it. You've got to chop it up the whole you can't just go get a can and go.
Martin Furber 14:32
No, no. Not quite the same thing Denise. No disrespect to people who do eat canned pineapple!
Satomi Shoji-Grun 14:41
I have a question.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:42
For weight loss, it may not be a good idea.
Martin Furber 14:44
Yes, Satomi, ask me anything you like.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 14:46
How did you decide to get a help or have to change? How, what is the critical event or moment that you wanted to change your diet?
Martin Furber 15:00
Well, similar to yourself, I had tried fad diets over the years, I'd lost weight, I'd gained weight. But my default position was always to pile the weight back on to binge eat. That was the default thing. In the same way that some people when they go from one activity to another, ie maybe they're going from watching the television to doing some ironing. That's exactly what they'll do. Other people go via the refrigerator and eat something. And that was my default position. It was always what am I going to eat next? That was it. You know, I do like my food. But my default position was always what can I eat next? And I had to shift that to what can I do next. Rather than what can I eat next week, my defining moment was when I was studying therapy, when I began reading all the books and doing all the research, I thought, let's see if self hypnosis works. And that's what I started reading up on. And that's how it happened. It was like, Okay, let's see if self hypnosis works. Let's see, because I knew by this time, I knew it was definitely, I was just, and I'll use Denise's phrase for this. I knew I was eating my emotions. I knew food was comfort. Oh, I'm happy. I'll eat Oh, I'm sad, I'll eat. It was always food. I decided not to bother searching for any psychological reasons why anymore, just to change it. But I needed to change the default position. And I needed to change my relationship with food. I didn't go on another diet. I didn't want to go on the diet. Because when you go on a diet you're always thinking about when you come off that diet, aren't you?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 16:49
So you were able to cut the circuit of emotion equal binge eating? And how did you manage the emotions without bingeing afterwards?
Martin Furber 17:02
Oh, right. Okay, well, that's as I started to study hypnotherapy. Of course, it was engaging a lot with all the trance sessions and all the reading and studying and engaging with these self hypnosis, trance sessions and everything. So that of course does wonders for one's mental health. I started to sleep better. So I started to exercise a little more. nothing drastic, just walking, just walking, that was all, walking a long way. And I also have asthma and COPD. And, at one point, I couldn't even get up the stairs without using an inhaler. Whereas now I can walk five miles uphill without any problem. 21 Stone in weight, I couldn't even get up the stairs. I was heading for an early grave, and I knew it and it was like, I've got to do something about this. I think it was still ringing in my ears about my Mum dying, you know, it brings our own mortality to us, doesn't it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:00
Was your mother heavy?
Martin Furber 18:02
No, not at all. Not at all. She was five foot one and weighed eight stone all her life. She was always like a size 10. In the UK. I don't know what that is over there. Satomi, may I ask you do you feel your move to the states and potentially changing dietary habits contributed to it? You know, I'm guessing when you lived in Japan and you you ate more Japanese style food and yet in America that's not readily available is it? As much. There's far more temptation with other foods in America, although I am aware when I was in Tokyo, I lived on MacDonalds.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 18:47
Well, in New York, there are temptation everywhere, they are good, like smell all over on the street. So it was a huge deal for me when I first moved here, because, you know, when you get triggered by just smelling and if people have a dominant senses. Mine was auditory. So like even cutting the you know, sound of the restaurant and like, you know, people eating the utensils and like smelling from the in all the street trucks and it was a big issue. And we can buy Japanese food, but it's not even a difference of the food culture. But it's more like how can I really use the self control to you know, manage the urge.
Martin Furber 19:45
Okay, and I just wondered, because when we think of the typical Japanese diet, there's a lot of fish, there's a lot of rice. We don't think of it as being unhealthy.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 19:57
Yeah, I think In my session, I would use, like, just the balanced meal, because now I hear more and more, people are just obsessed with being healthy. And it's getting more and more dominant issues. Like, you know, have you heard about the word called orthorexia?
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:18
Yes, yes. Yeah.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 20:20
So like people want to really eat only, like healthy food.
Martin Furber 20:25
Yeah. And if they can't get it, they won't eat. So that's that's the issue.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 20:28
Yes, and the treatment option is different than the traditional eating disorder treatment. We use the exposure method and some element of OCD method and yeah, it's just there are so many variety of eating disorders. Yeah,
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:50
I just thought of another one for you that, of course, most people when you think of a Japanese person we see somebody fairly slender, with the exception of Sumo.
Martin Furber 20:59
Sumo sumo wrestlers!
Speaker 2 21:02
Oh, yes. That's a really interesting topic. Yeah, they are..
Denise Billen-Mejia 21:11
But they're, they are supposed to be on it, but do they ever retire?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 21:18
I think so, but a couple of years ago, I found, I saw a documentary or some issues that they are fed. And then that former retiree of some Sumo wrestlers are, like, you know, exposing the issue of the Sumo house because they're fed, like a forced fed, or force fed to really produce, you know, the wrestle body, but yeah, media, projection and media portray of a people or another thing. And we assume it really subconsciously. Yeah. I was thinking on the other day, when I was watching a TV animation with my daughter. And even that really like a silly, cute animation, llike hamsters and cute thing, you know, running around that the girls are portrayed? Like, twigs, like, so thin, right? Like, even without saying anything about it, like a we are programmed like, oh, do I have to be that thin to be cute? Right?
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:29
I don't think you even need to ask yourself the question. Most of the time, you just you just internalise, you skip the question and answer, you just go with the fact that you can only be cute if you're skinny. And too thin is just as bad for you. The margins are closer.
Martin Furber 22:47
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You won't menstruate if you're too thin.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:52
Exactly
Martin Furber 22:53
We would die out.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:57
Yeah. So how do you how do you market yourself? Do you do advertise? Or do you speak to doctors? How do people find you?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 23:09
I have a website. I will be posting more on the YouTube. Right now, I have a website because, break free to thrive.com.
Martin Furber 23:22
I would think, no disrespect to our viewers in New York, but there's no shortage of people with binge eating disorder in New York if what I see on television is to be believed.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:33
Well, there's no shortage of people in Manhattan. I mean, 1.6 million, just in Manhattan.
Martin Furber 23:38
Just on that island. Yeah.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 23:42
Yes, but how did you notice, Martin, when you were having binge eating, did you even recognise your binge eating? Or I didn't even know what's wrong with me. I thought I'm just so different and I'm broken or wrong. But I didn't, it just binge eating or overeating. It didn't come to me.
Martin Furber 24:04
I knew. I knew I was comfort eating. It's only in the last couple of years I've come to acknowledge it was binge eating. When I think about how I used to stuff the food in there until I could stuff no more in. I think it's only during a lot of my conversations with Denise that I've sort of figured it out. Oh yeah, that was binge eating disorder.
Denise Billen-Mejia 24:29
Nice to be useful sometimes! Do you work much, and I structured the question with queuing for Satomi. Do you see a lot of people for weight issues? Where do you put, where do most of the people in the UK find you? Are they from your Facebook. Yeah. Or is it from this? Of course!
Martin Furber 24:53
From everywhere from the newspaper articles, people trace me that way. From here and from the referrals from the clinics I work in, because don't forget, I work alongside other therapists and psychiatrists. So I do get referrals that way. As I say, it's strange though, because when I first became a therapist, I decided I was going to be the poster boy for weight loss. And then it didn't quite happen that way, I concentrate more on anxiety and depression these days. Where, you know, I'm very successful. But as you as you said in the conversation before we came on air Satomi, a lot of people with anxiety or depression, tend to have poor eating habits anyway, it's a symptom of it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:40
So, Satomi, tell me, where do you think your business is headed? What do you think you're going to do? Are you going to, obviously, until your daughter's in school, for a major portion of the day, you're going to be, it's going to be more difficult for you. But how do you want to build out your practice?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 25:57
I would like to coach one on one, because I feel that's the most effective method, but the fastest and most effective method that I can provide. But eventually, when I establish the methodology that works for everybody, like I want to, I want to move to the group coaching. So like, use the core methods to everybody, while probably combining with one on one options.
Martin Furber 26:29
Excellent, excellent. And clearly, your services are going to be very much in demand. Because you have that unique thing of being able to tell people you have that lived experience. Once people know that you actually get what they're thinking, and how they're thinking, rather than how they're feeling There is no better thing.
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:50
And also not feeling judged. Because you've been in the same place. I think that's huge.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 26:56
Yes, people can be safe saying, the exact thing that they did, which is like eating three packs of Peppermint Patties in one set. And I experienced really even hard to tell the truth to even my own therapist of many years, because I knew that she would probably have not experienced that before.
Martin Furber 27:17
That's fantastic. We're almost out of time. Satomi, would you like to say anything to our viewers and listeners about what you do? And tell them a little bit more and how they can reach you?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 27:29
Yes. So if you have an issue or feeling like losing control with the food, thinking about food too much. You're not alone. And you can reach me at www.breakfree2thrive.com And we can figure it out, and there is a way to get out. Even without even without a vision or without even without reaching the rock bottom. There is a way to get up.
Martin Furber 28:01
Do you see clients online worldwide?
Satomi Shoji-Grun 28:05
Yes, absolutely. Yes. Right.
Martin Furber 28:07
Perfect. Thank you.
Speaker 1 28:08
I think it's a huge selling point is also your Japanese is pretty good. You can definitely, that's a nice string to your bow. Anyway, it was lovely to see you again. Thank you so much for joining us.
Satomi Shoji-Grun 28:24
Thank you for having me was such a great time talking with you.
Martin Furber 28:29
It's been a pleasure. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1 28:39
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only. So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
Martin Furber 28:55
If you found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes. Join us again next week.
