Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits that it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor turned consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapists talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:33
So let's get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:36
We're back again, Denise, just you and I.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:41
And so little time has passed since the last time we spoke to each other. We do have some interesting people lined up though for later on, but we're not going to try and figure out who's going to record what order anymore.
Martin Furber 0:52
We have actually got some fantastic guests lined up though. But like you say, no false starts on dates and things. So what we're going to talk about today?
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:03
I think we should talk about the basis, the basics, we were trained differently, not huge differences, it's definitely a lot easier for us to work together than for some of the other people I've come across who do very valid work. Also, it's just an easier fit. Why don't you talk a little bit about I can't remember what this word stands for now, SF?
Martin Furber 1:27
Solution Focused Training Academy.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:31
Solution focused?
Martin Furber 1:32
Yeah, solution focused hypnotherapy Well, I suppose in one sentence, it does what it says on the tin, we focus on solutions. But it's a whole, what's the word you use? It follows a structure. Each session follows a structure. But it's not impersonal. It is a personalised service.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:03
Quick, quick question for you, though, because you talked about solution focused. So your obviously, that's where that that's what the person comes to you for, they will want to fix whatever is wrong. How much time do you have to spend with them talking about what it is that they don't like about whatever the issue is?
Martin Furber 2:22
Okay, well, the initial consultation that I give, can last anything up to like 90 minutes. And they are free to talk about whatever they want in that initial consultation. And yet we can sort of explore when these things started and what effect they have. And that kind of thing. I think it is important to get that message across that I don't just dismiss the negative things or dismiss what the issue is. It's just that moving forward, as you know, the client gets better and the client gets to where they want to be, we don't focus on the causes of the presenting issue.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:00
Right, Actually, that just that is one big, a pretty big difference. Because most people do 20 minutes, maybe 30 minutes talking to the rest of as they decide, yes, we're going to try this. And I'll meet you on X day at this time. Usually online, but sometimes in person. What would be something that would tend to make you feel that you weren't the right person? Or modality for somebody?
Martin Furber 3:00
Right, okay. Well, I think if as the conversation went along, somebody started to express a lot of doubts about hypnotherapy, for example, then they will be talking themselves into thinking it wouldn't work for them, in which case it won't work for them.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:45
But you do a mini hypnosis with them in the room that you're on the first meeting?
Martin Furber 3:52
I may or may not depending on the person do you know, relaxation, you know, I may do something sort of like a little test sort of thing. You know, like talk about lemons and that kind of thing. But I will also do a relaxation. Yeah. Because generally when they've had that initial consultation anyway, and they have been talking about things which have upset them in the past and one thing and I don't want them to leave there with that spinning round in the mind, I want them to leave, they're feeling good. So I will do a mini relaxation at the end of the session as well. So they can experience for themselves. You know what it feels like to be completely relaxed and focus.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:37
And have you ever had somebody not be able to go through that process?
Martin Furber 4:41
And strangely enough, the one person who said to me, I'm going to have to paraphrase now, but words to the effect of I'm always that wound-up I can't see how you could possibly make me relax. They were one of the best ones.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:59
Yeah, The ones that fight the hardest fall the best.
Martin Furber 5:01
Yeah, yeah,
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:03
I had, I actually remember the gentleman I was seeing a while back. The first time I just wanted to do over because he could not relax. The first meeting that I had. That was the first paid session, we'd had the conversation. He really wanted it to work. But he was so invested in it working, he could not just relax. The second time, it was fine. He just needed to get over this. I'm not going to do anything really strange.
Martin Furber 5:28
Yeah, no, as I say that, that always sticks in my mind, the one person who was convinced that they wouldn't even be able to relax or stay quiet long enough to listen to me. They were a really, really good subject. Absolutely.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:44
Do you happen to know where this person found you by themselves? Or were you referred? Were they referred to you?
Martin Furber 5:49
They were referred to me by one of the clinics. Excuse me, and typically, this particular version, and many of my clients as well have come to hypnotherapy as a sort of a last resort. Do you find that with a lot of your clients? They've just tried everything else first.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:09
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, partly because we're not as well publicised as some of the other things. But it is, one of the ways I work is, to talk to when somebody comes to see me, I need to talk to their doctor once I've talked to their doctor. And it will work for these other people too, and it'll work with... So I have beginning to get people referred from physicians already. Not very many yet, but hope never dies.
Martin Furber 6:38
Yeah, well, I'm sorry. But I just wonder when hypnotherapy hypnosis will be just generally accepted as one of the modalities because I'm thinking, excuse me, okay, we were talking off air before about CBT. And that's been around since about the 1950s, hasn't it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:01
Yeah, that therapy has been thought of I think for a while. I'm actually not much before the 30s as Freud was like, late 20s.
Martin Furber 7:09
Yeah, yeah. But I'm just thinking about when, you know, modalities, or let's take EMDR there's another one. Okay. That's been around, what, 30 years, something like that?
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:19
Yeah, about the early 80s.
Martin Furber 7:21
Yeah. I'm just wondering how, how many hurdles EMDR practitioners had to jump through before that general level of acceptance, by those who would refer to it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:33
I think that tends to be an arm of practice. So they are offering other things I was offered it once. And I've been seeing the therapist for several years, when she said, oh, and we could try this. Oh, you do that? I didn't know you did that. Yeah, I think there's a tendency for just try this. And then we'll go try this. And we'll try this and never giving it a chance to really settle. As I people say, I want to come to you tomorrow and get hypnotised again, no, no, let it let it do its work, before we do something else on top. I only see, see my clients usually two weeks apart, you are barely a week.
Martin Furber 8:14
Yeah, around a week, usually a week. Although over recent months, more and more of them have switched to fortnightly. I think for those people, it seems to be working better.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:28
Yeah, I think closer than a week, you just aren't getting full value. You want to really take that have that episode work as well as it can. And then you use something else to bring it along. One of the things that people think is that they come in with a laundry list and give you a laundry list and walk out the door half an hour later, they're fine. And it just doesn't work that way. Because their minds says 'no too much change'.
Martin Furber 8:56
I call it a shopping list over here. And it's, it's quite funny though, because part of the structure of the sessions I do is to ask people what's been good over the last week to get them into that all important left prefrontal cortex when they're talking to me, so we're just looking back and thinking of good things that have happened. And I do have one or two that come in with a big full shopping list of it because they're taking the therapy really seriously. They're giving it their best, they want to get better. And they want to you know, play their part in it because I always say with therapy that you know, the clients who've got to play the game if they don't, but you know, they're not getting the best out of it, are they?
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:39
We're certainly doing our part but they have do theirs too.
Martin Furber 9:41
I do have one or two that come in with what I call shopping lists of what's been good you know, the been noting every little thing down as they've gone along.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:49
But the other thing is with this as you make one change, and lots of other little things, the smaller issues just fall into place as well. They start seeing hope as well.
Martin Furber 10:02
Well, that's the important thing. That's the word, isn't it? That's hope, I think with any therapy. If you've got hope, then you're already facing forward, and you're already going to start to engage with it. It's that hope for recovery, isn't it? And I always say to people, recovery isn't just possible, it's likely.
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:29
Yes, yes, that's the that's the difference. I always, the thing that trips me up is you don't want to suggest ever that something isn't going to work, no, or even has a possibility of not working. But at the same time, I come from a medical background, you never tell them anything is an absolute. It's got to be most people find this is great relief. I tend to walk on both sides.
Martin Furber 10:57
Well, yeah, I mean, that's actually quite interesting. Because with your medical background, and how you've been taught in hypnotherapy, hypnosis, there are obviously going to be some conflicts in the way you deliver it, and the statements that you give to people in managing expectations, for example. Because it, you know, when you if, as a medical doctor, if you gave somebody a prescription, and they say to me, will this work, even then you won't say ...
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:24
Works for most?
Martin Furber 11:27
Well, it's strange answer, because I do say to people, you know, most people, this works right away. For some people, it takes a little longer.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:37
Yes, yes. And that is of course, true, because it's the way that they learn. Hmm. It's very different. Some people immediately see a change. Yeah. And other people could take almost a week before they notice it. Yeah. Because a lot of times, you don't actually notice that when you go back in and have them tell the story of what's been going on in the last week, they, you can bring their attention to the fact that this is different than what you were saying last week, this is different, what you're saying last week. Enough for them to be able to be cheered by the fact that they've made change, but without making them feel like an idiot, because they didn't realise they'd changed.
Martin Furber 12:17
Yeah, that's always a fine line as well, because let's face it, we don't want our clients to ever have a thing where they think, Oh, I've been silly. You know, we never want them to feel like that. Do you use scaling with people in your pre-talk?
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:34
Not as much as you do. I do with some things. But it's very much a part of the way people trained your way think.
Martin Furber 12:43
Well, yeah, but that could be quite interesting, that's the thing, because you can have somebody...
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:48
Do you use it at the end of every session, or just every so often?
Martin Furber 12:51
No, I do it every session. And it's before we do what we call the miracle question. We ask people where they are on the happiness scale out of 10, where one is you don't even want to get out of bed and come and see me. And 10 is the best you could possibly feel. I can get somebody who has told me that they're having a tough time that life's pretty miserable. XYZ is wrong. And then when I get to the scaling question, you know, on a scale of zero to 10, as I've just said, they'll say oh, I'm eight out of ten, but what you've told me doesn't correspond.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:26
Right, but just the fact that they can offload it to you, in itself can be, and you've accepted, it can make them feel better.
Martin Furber 13:35
And this is really where I get very, very mixed feelings, okay about this kind of thing. Because one, if our clients are just focusing on the negative and everything that's wrong, then they're going to amplify it. But on the other hand, if they do offload, they feel better for it. It's like, Well, where do we strike that balance?
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:57
Yeah, I do think it's, it's we're going to talk about that's why the first session is always so long. You want to get as much as possible, and get all the negatives out of the way. Yeah. So they can start to apply positive things. But you know, it's like, let's talk about weight because that's such an obvious thing. We both see quite a few people for it. There is nothing that you can do other than surgery. And even that doesn't, it's not immediate. You can't hypnotise somebody to be thin. You can hypnotise somebody to have better eating patterns, so they will get where they want to go. But there is no snap your fingers and it's done. If somebody came to me because they want to lose two pounds, I would suggest a better use of their money. That's silly. Most of these people who are coming they've got 50 to 200 pounds to lose, lots of weight.
Martin Furber 14:49
In terms of weight loss, do you ever do aversion therapy? You know if somebody says to you can you hypnotise me not to want to eat chocolate, for example?
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:00
Oh, I'm not a big fan of aversion. No, because it backfires. You know, your Mom's made you a beautiful cake, and you've had a really good aversion. So, you know, walk in the room see the beautiful cake and vomit. That's not what you want to do. You want to have, oh, that's interesting. I can take just a little piece of this because somebody made this for me. And that little piece is enough. It satisfies you. And that's the difference. It's it's the, there may be a cake and I going to throw the whole thing in my face. Some people's dietary habits are such that they cannot control what they're doing. I don't think aversion is really the way, unless it was life threatening maybe? Because it backfires.
Martin Furber 15:51
No, I just wondered if you did aversion therapy, because as we were discussing before we came on air, our therapies have a lot of similarities, but there are differences as well, in the way we practice things. I don't do aversion of therapy.
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:02
No, I think it's fallen away, I don't think a lot of people do it anymore. Or certainly it's not the first thing they turn to.
Martin Furber 16:10
Hmm. I mean, I, I would do distraction therapy,as the name I've given to it a distraction.
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:21
Describe that technique to us, please.
Martin Furber 16:24
Okay. So for example, okay, if somebody's weight management, let's go on to weight management. Again, somebody wants help with their eating habits. They eat three great meals a day, no problem there. But then they binge eat in the evening after the evening meal they carry on eating, maybe they'll have some toast, maybe they'll have potato chips, maybe they'll eat sweets, even though the other evening meal and should be sufficed. Okay, and I will talk to them about what is that feeling that you get just before you eat those things. Okay. And I will try and get them to change, or I will help them to change what they regard that feeling as.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:06
Do you? Is there a one feeling that tends to be more prevalent?
Martin Furber 17:11
Yeah, it's usually that feeling that they are still hungry and they need to eat something.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:16
Okay. It's not, it's not, they're not looking for love, or something?
Martin Furber 17:21
No, no, no, I'm just talking about people who just eat. They don't have that full feeling. They're not getting that signal that satiety.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:30
Iwas thinking, you know, when I was a kid, we always got to biscuits, glass of milk, and then bedtime was about half hour later. Yeah, and I it's not a habit that you really need as a child because dinner wasn't that long ago and in British terms back in the 50s and 60s, it was tea time. Yeah. But that was just something I always said it took a long time for that to go away. It was just it was part of the ritual it was I don't think it was particularly bad for my weight. I'm certainly, I'm heavier than most of my sisters but you know, you'd eat a normal dinner and you'd go off and do something or occasionally watch TV or whatever and then it was a signal to your brain that you were going to be going to sleep now a signal to your brain you're going to sleep could be washing your face and getting changed.
Martin Furber 18:24
Cleaning your teeth
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:26
Cleaning your teeth, exactly.
Martin Furber 18:28
Yeah, it's strange you know, we were talking again before we went on air how we can hear music and from a certain time it'll take us back what you've just mentioned something you just took me right back when we were little. Again, same thing we would have our evening meal but then at bedtime about nine o'clock it was biscuits. You could have three plain ones or two cream ones.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:53
Oh, we didn't ge choices we got whatever we had.
Martin Furber 18:56
The choice was you could have three plain ones or two cream ones, but now this is the thing Okay, with a cup of coffee!
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:07
Milky coffee?
Martin Furber 19:08
Yeah, it was milky coffee, two sugars, you know the kind they usually give children.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:14
Not Ovalitne?
Martin Furber 19:14
No, I didn't like Ovaltine, I was offered it, didn't like it, didn't like cocoa or drinking chocolate. I didn't like any of the bedtime drinks. But I had a very milky coffee. But isn't it interesting how you you hear something and takes you back back?
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:31
Yeah, that really is like the way both of us work that you find those things for the clients that you can just have them...
Martin Furber 19:37
Take them back to happier times, or just reconnect them with things. It's sort of like reconnecting those neural pathways, isn't it to where we are. This is where I talk about a default position where we will instantly connect with good things, positive things. Let's say positive things rather than good things. And yeah, that is a lot of what we do and this is when, again, using weight or trying to avoid something, when we're in that negative frame of mind, we're just connecting with a load of jumble there. And we're scratching around for things, when we can make these direct connections to happier memories, and this is what I do when people come in and I ask them what's been good at the beginning of the session? I'm trying to get them to reconnect immediately with what's been good in the last seven days. Get them into that positive frame of mind.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:26
The audio you send your clients do, obviously, you have to prepare it, after you've spoken with them, do you use something that's directly related to the previous session? Or is it more of a relaxation thing?
Martin Furber 20:38
No, it's just, it's just a relaxation thing, the sessions, the live sessions are tailored. The bedtime recording is just a very general relaxation. Because it's purely there to get them to relax and go to sleep or to help them get better quality sleep.
Denise Billen-Mejia 21:01
Mine is more likely to be on the issue. But I wait a couple of days like touch base and see what's changed. If If nothing's happened, right, third day, they might need a little help getting some change there. But there are occasions when the difference is so rapid that you don't want to go flog a dead horse. What else would you like to change?
Martin Furber 21:24
Yeah, talking again of change. We were talking off air about shopping lists. When clients call me with shopping lists, or as you call them a laundry list of things that they want to change or improve on? I'm I think we're both on the same thing with this one, isn't it? Well, which would you like to change first.
Denise Billen-Mejia 21:43
Yes, which is the thing that would make the biggest difference, let's work on this. Now if somebody comes and says they want to be able to drive further away than two blocks, and they want to lose 300 pounds, if the 300 pounds is probably really important, but that's going to take physically a lot of time. Nevermind how good you are as a hypnotist. There's actual real life in place. But the driving issue, it can be something where you can get effect very quickly.
Martin Furber 22:14
Yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:15
Not always, depending on the way they learn. It can be quite quick.
Martin Furber 22:20
Yeah. But also then once you had gone through successfully with the driving issue, then your client will know for a fact that hypnosis works for them. And they will know that whatever technique you then use for the weight will work for them.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:35
Yeah, exactly. And it's really a question holding their hand as long as they need your help getting that because after with me, it's usually around the 8 or 9 weeks they say yeah, I don't think I need you anymore. I can just do it myself. OK, you know where I live. You know how to get hold of me anyway.
Martin Furber 22:55
All right. Well, I've explained my my sessions about them. Let's hear about yours on the next episode shall we?
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:01
Yeah. Okay. Hopefully, hopefully one of our guests will be able to record for us before the next session. Yeah. Okay. If not, we'll talk my thing again.
Martin Furber 23:10
Yeah, well, you can talk me through one of your sessions so I'llcatch younon the next one.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:13
Okay. Okay. All right. Bye bye.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:24
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember, this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only. So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
Martin Furber 23:39
If you found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes. Join us again next one
