A Mother's Fight to Legalize Hypnosis: The Story of Joan Goulding
Two Hypnotherapists Talking — with special guest Cheryl Elman Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH & Les Roberts
Listen to the Full Episode
Welcome back to Two Hypnotherapists Talking, the weekly podcast for anyone curious about the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits it offers. Your hosts are Denise Billen-Mejia, a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist based in Delaware, USA, and Les Roberts, a clinical hypnotherapist in St Helens, United Kingdom, who specializes in working with children.
This episode welcomes back Cheryl Elman, a hypnotist many listeners may remember from earlier episodes. This time, Cheryl shares a story close to her heart — one that spans continents, decades, and a mother's determination to change the law.
Meeting Joan Goulding
Cheryl's story begins back in 2011, at a conference held by Shelley Stockwell-Nicholas in California. There, she met Joan Goulding, a woman with a remarkable history. Joan and her late husband had run a hypnosis school in Victoria, Australia — at a time when practicing hypnosis in the state was actually illegal.
This created an unusual workaround: the school could teach the coursework, but students weren't permitted to actually hypnotize anyone in Victoria. So after roughly two years of classroom-based training, students would travel by bus to a neighboring state, spend a couple of weeks putting their training into practice — hypnotizing each other and working through real sessions — and then return home to graduate.
Denise noted this echoes similar restrictions seen elsewhere. In parts of the United States and in Israel, for example, only licensed physicians are permitted to practice hypnosis, showing just how much regulation varies from place to place.
Joan didn't just work around the law — she spent years actively campaigning to get hypnosis legalized in Victoria.
A Family Story Behind the Fight
Joan's motivation was deeply personal. She and her first husband — English immigrants to Australia, sometimes referred to by the nickname "Ten Pound Poms" — had two daughters born close together, almost like Irish twins.
Joan noticed early differences between the girls. Her older daughter, Michelle, seemed a little clumsy and wasn't developing speech in the way expected. Meanwhile, her younger daughter, Teresa, began doing something unusual: rather than following her older sister's lead, it was Michelle who started imitating and following Teresa.
Concerned, Joan brought her daughters to psychologists and moved between different schools trying to get support. On one visit, she found Michelle isolated in a corner of a classroom, still without much language to communicate with.
Around this time, Joan's marriage broke down — and the situation grew even more difficult. During a weekend visit, her ex-husband took the girls and did not return them. What followed was a nine-month search before he finally brought Michelle back, though by then she was even harder to reach, with very little communication.
This story continues in the full episode, where Cheryl shares how Joan's search for answers ultimately connects to her hypnosis work today.
Catch the complete conversation with Cheryl Elman on Two Hypnotherapists Talking.
Connect with everyone from this episode:
Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH — www.healandberadiant.com | [email protected]
Les Roberts — www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk | [email protected]
Cheryl Elman — www.elmanhypnosis.com | [email protected]
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